There are two sides to every story and then there is the truth. The real-life tale of Avon “Bodie” Barksdale, former drug kingpin of Baltimore, was interloped into HBO’s acclaimed series The Wire by ex-journalist and author David Simon. Ed Burns, the show’s co-producer and Simon’s creative partner, drew from his own experiences as a detective to illustrate Barksdale from the law enforcement perspective. Now that the television-writing duo have told their sides, only the truth remains and who better to recall it than Mr. Barksdale himself? As well-crafted and gripping as The Wire was, the real Avon doesn’t feel as if the show did him justice. So he’s setting the record straight with The Avon Barksdale Story: Legends Of The Unwired, to be released March 10th on DVD and distributed by E1 Music. Wood Harris, the actor who portrayed Barksdale on The Wire, narrates this intense, straight-no-chaser documentary.
It’s only fitting that a fellow certified O.G. participate in Barksdale’s film endeavor. Chaz Williams – of Black Hand Entertainment and BET American Gangster fame – is Avon’s good friend, business consultant and associate producer for Legends Of The Unwired. So when I met with Avon “Bodie” Barksdale for a Q&A session, Williams sat vigilantly in the background, spiking the convo with his commentary. Soak up some game.
TSS: Why are you putting this DVD out?
Avon Barksdale: There are two or three reasons why I’m putting this out, but the main reason is I wanted my story to be told by me. I wanted you and everybody else that buys this to get it straight from me. I can add some clarity to it.
TSS: Did you feel that The Wire did you justice with its portrayal?
Barksdale: No, I don’t.
TSS: Then why did you get Wood Harris (who portrayed Barksdale on The Wire) to narrate the movie?
Barksdale: Because I agreed with Wood Harris and the way he portrayed me. I agreed with him being chosen as the actor to represent me. And he done a pretty good job, especially with him not being a guy that’s from my neighborhood. Even down to the vernacular, he spoke like us and everything.
TSS: They took what they perceive as your story and put it on TV. Do you feel as if that’s a form of snitchin’ on their part?
Barksdale: I wasn’t worried about that because of the way that they approached me. I wasn’t worried about people perceiving it as snitching because for one, I didn’t give them any information. Nobody came to me and did what you’re doing now, interviewing me. David Simon worked for a local newspaper called the Baltimore Sun and he was a court reporter. Not once did he ever come and interview me like you’re doing. I give props to journalists who do what you’re doing and actually do journalism. The way that they did it, they told me, “We’re gonna do this anyway, with or without you.”
TSS: They have the right to do that?
Barksdale: Well, I didn’t think they did, but it takes a lot to fight that type of… that’s literally fighting Hollywood and everything that comes with it. I was just out of the joint. I was actually still in the joint when they first approached me. But the way they approached me; they approached me and told me, “Look, this is a matter of public record.” Right? One guy, Ed Burns, he wasn’t the arresting officer but he is the investigating officer. He’s at the top and he sent the other ones to arrest me. You’re really gonna have to buy (the DVD) so that you can understand more because that would be an hour, explaining all of that to you. Nah, I didn’t feel like the really did me any justice. I felt like Wood done the role justice because he’s a good actor. He’s the shit, y’know? We kind of favor. I felt like he done well and that’s why when I got ready to do mine, I chose Wood actually. There was another guy I could’ve chose.
TSS: How have the streets of Baltimore changed from the time you were out there doing your thing until now?
Barksdale: Aw, man. So many. You see a lot of other races. When I was doing my thing it was either black or white. Now you see all kinds of races. It is a recession, a depression; everybody’s out there hustlin’. That’s one way. Another is when I was out there, it seems as though money was plentiful even though I grew up poor. But it was right there and I knew where it was at. But now everybody needs to know, “Where’s the money, man?”
Chaz Williams: If I may… I just want to say in relation to the difference in now and then, a lot has to do with the propensity for random and senseless violence. Black-on-Black violence. It’s almost as if back then it was sort of like (there was) a common enemy we could identify with; so the violence of black-on-black wasn’t as great, as we could all relate to one thing. To give you an example, say when Martin Luther King was assassinated or something happened to a young black girl in the South and they sic dogs on her. At a moment’s notice, it was riots all over the country. We wasn’t going at each other. We all knew and recognized we had a common enemy.
I think what happened is that because of the indoctrinations and a lot of other things, we have become our own common enemy. It’s so much easier for us to shoot down one of our neighbors because they actually got us hating our neighbors; you know what I’m sayin’? It’s so easy to rat your comrade. How do you come up with somebody and eat with them at the same house and at a moment’s notice you’re giving him up, your mother up, your cousin? It’s a whole ‘nother mentality going on now than there was going on then. You know what I’m sayin’? So that’s my take on that.
In reference to The Wire, one of the things is that – and I really want to get this out – there always seems to be a problem when blacks tell our own stories. And when we tell our own stories they say that we are glorifying violence. When somebody else tells our story it’s all good. (They say) “It’s realism, it’s gritty” and all this bullshit. No. When there is somebody like say, a Spike Lee that tells Malcolm X or there’s a Charles Dutton that tells The Corner, they do not get the kind of credit they should get or the kind of money either. The Wire, David Simon and them pulled in over $90 million dollars. We got none of that so one of the things is that, he should be fairly compensated for his story.
They gave him some money. They made it a consultancy or something after the fact; after telling him, “We’re gonna do it anyway.” But they didn’t pay him for the rights to his life story which is what everybody else gets paid when they tell these other stories about whoever it is. All we get is “stop glorifying violence.” What we’re trying to do most times is that someone misrepresents us and we want to correct it with the truth. Not saying it’s all lies, however we’re not glorifying it. We’re just letting it be known what it is, however you want to take it. As a life lesson, however you want to take it. We can’t change what we’ve been, we are what we are. But it’s not always glorifying. When they do Scarface, it’s a classic. When they do The Godfather, it’s a classic…
Barksdale: Superfly is black exploitation.


I might have to cop this DVD. Sidenote, this dude looks hella freaky in his “press” pix.
Man I hope the documentary and that craptastic movie are TWO separate purchases. “Just dont have me snitching or rating….And I wont have to kill your ass” He said it so matter of factly lol.
There was a few guys that was homosexuals that also had a propensity for violence. But ain’t none of ‘em fuck me with me.
^that makes me laugh to no end
dude contradicted himself – or maybe he didnt realize that the writers of the wire ALSO WROTE the corner?
May be a case of not being aware moreso than contradicting himself. The Corner didn’t get a sliver of the attention that The Wire does.
I read his interview in FEDS or Don Diva. His story is intense to say the least.
I’ve watched “The Wire” and I still don’t see what all the hype is about. I’d rather hear the real story from this dude though.
@Gotty, you’re right, it didn’t, but to say that was b/c of Roc directing is kind of silly IMO, and to be honest, the stories and talent on The Corner were dope, but the wire had the full monty.
I’ve watched “The Wire” and I still don’t see what all the hype is about.
================
Hmm…not sure if I can explain it.
you’re right, it didn’t, but to say that was b/c of Roc directing is kind of silly IMO
===============
No disrespect but I disagree. When the series first hit the air, my homegirl and her mother (who are from the DMV) were all “there’s this new hbo mini-series with Rock on it.” At the time, he was heavy into directing and producing so it was perceived as his project yunno. Added a level of authenticity to it.
Personally, The Corner, the book > the miniseries.
what about prop joe, marlo, stringer those characters were more intriguing as far as the streets. i actually prefer the political dynamics on how the violence effects the facilities of the media, schools, and political climate.
@ Gotty: I’m not saying that “The Wire” sucks, but after all of the acclaim and constant nudging from friends to check out the show, I wasn’t entirely overwhelmed. Still, it was one of the better shows on TV; a LOT of garbage out there now.
I had the show pumped up to me also and it didn’t disapoint at all. been wanting to watch it again as a matter of fact
I think its disgusting that this guy is trying to cash in on his crimes.
I think its disgusting that this guy is trying to cash in on his crimes.
^
In one form or another it’s an American tradition, isn’t it?
damn, the ‘real’ avon barksdale sure as hell looks a lot more like bubs than he does avon bhahahaha
@duncanK – well played, i lol’d.
i saw the trailer for this movie, and it just looks like a god damned mess. i’d rather watch BELLY on repeat for 2 days than sit through a ‘film’ of historically shitty proportions.
in any case, props to TSS for landing this interview. i can imagine how intimidating it is to sit in front of THE avon barksdale. incredible.
Yeh, I don’t think the wire was intended to be a documentary about the real Avon Barksdale.
I thought The Corner was dope. It was a smaller scope and in some ways more humane than The Wire.
But I do have to agree that despite Simon and Burns writing for The Corner, TC was still seen as a “black-helmed” production, accurately or not.
I mean now that Simon has national acclaim, whenever The Corner comes up Dutton is never even mentioned. every TC reference you see in the press is about SImon’s involvement as if that was all his ting. You wouldn’t even know anyone black was behind the scenes at all.
I think that’s what Williams and Barksdale were getting at when they talk about who tells certain stories.
That’s not to belittle Simon’s role at all. He’s a dope writer and has vision. But his being white definitely didn’t hurt the show’s path to success. And to Simon’s credit he’s repeatedly acknowledged that while pointing out Hollywood’s hypocrisy on issues of race in TV.
As for AB, I hope this doc’s good. So many indie biopic docs are so bad, particularly the ones involving criminals, “urban/hood celebs” etc. Hope they got the vision they wanted on film.
I’d hate to see one of these bootleg lookin, dude sitting at the kitchen table or in a part with crappy handycam work for 43 minutes with some no-name rapper spitting generic bars at the end.
“I’d hate to see one of these bootleg lookin, dude sitting at the kitchen table or in a part with crappy handycam work for 43 minutes with some no-name rapper spitting generic bars at the end.”
^^^^Did you watch the trailer? There’s even a corny-ass narrator. This honestly looks like an embarassment. If the quality of the trailer (high-school film class project) is any indication, then dude might make some money based on his name alone, but the thing’ll be so awful he’ll just be trading in his name for money.
Haha, I was just about to say that dukes looks like Bubs on the real.
“i can imagine how intimidating it is to sit in front of THE avon barksdale.”
not at all. was it awesome? yeah.
i respect him. he lost his leg as a kid, so he basically took over west baltimore with one good leg. shit, i know mu’fuckas with 2 good legs that can’t seize an opportunity to save they life, legal or otherwise.
he been shot 21 times. when he was in the hospital niggas came to finish him off & gave him 2 to the head, point blank. he’s still here.
nobody in his crew snitched even facing football numbers. they were resigned to the consequences & took their bids like men, unlike these half-ass gangstaz you see on “first 48″ cryin & droppin dime on everybody… even they own mama… under minimal pressure. do the crime, do the time. even the cops got the blue wall of silence.
“what about prop joe, marlo, stringer those characters were more intriguing as far as the streets.”
they’re in this doc, but in much lesser roles.
“I think its disgusting that this guy is trying to cash in on his crimes.”
ditto what OED said. and on top of that, you a bitch.
Good interview.
Interesting but not surprising that the producers of the series did not involve themselves thoroughly in researching the people/characters they wanted to portray.
The Wire is a lose portrayal of what life was like in Baltimore from the 70s through the 90s although it takes place in a modern setting. I’m not mad that the writers took facts and events spinning them as they saw fit. The Wire is fiction and creative license gives the writers a right to tell the story how they see fit.
“I think its disgusting that this guy is trying to cash in on his crimes.”
ditto what OED said. and on top of that, you a bitch.
^
lol
very dope read. well done Khalid.
“The Wire is a lose portrayal of what life was like in Baltimore from the 70s through the 90s although it takes place in a modern setting. I’m not mad that the writers took facts and events spinning them as they saw fit. The Wire is fiction and creative license gives the writers a right to tell the story how they see fit.”
Agreed. The show wasn’t intended to be so much of a 100% accurate portrayal but rather to examine the causes and effects of social issues in urban cities. This show could’ve taken place in DC, New York, Cleveland, Philly, Detroit, etc. Hell, Simon has admitted that he straight made up things like the Sunday Truce; in the grand scheme of things, it doesn’t really affect the way I, someone from the DMV, looked at the show.
Since “The Wire” is being taught at Harvard University and many other tv/film courses, Avon should look into giving lectures…
Dude’s name ain’t Avon. It’s Nathan. Only been calling himself “Avon” since “The Wire” came out.
http://www.citypaper.com/news/story.asp?id=17966&p=4#note
Muthafucka this The Smoking SECTION not The Smoking GUN.
Were you in West Baltimore when he was growin up? His mother sat down in the interview & said she named him Avon. You callin’ his moms a liar?
And even if his name ain’t Avon, so what? He ain’t Rick Ross. It don’t change what he done. Maybe he’s just capitalizing. You took a name from a Simpsons character.
I got a better idea. Why we don’t dig up some information on YO’ ASS, if only we knew who you were you nameless, faceless, non-identity-havin’ muthafucka.
People wanting to get paid for just being, instead of doing: that’s the American Way, right? I’m not saying his mom is lying, exactly, just that it dosen’t appear that she remembered naming her son Avon until after all this HBO stuff came about. And no one ever recorded it in any public record Simon or City Paper could find. And that that’s kind of interesting, given Mr. Barksdale’s assertion that he is now telling all the “true facts.” No need for you to get all insulted and threatening about it, is there, Mr. Pacino?
I’m not insulted, I don’t even know you.
But I’m an old-school dude & this internet fucks my head up sometimes, y’know? When I can’t look people in the eye, see what their face or even contact ‘em directly… I get all crazy & shit. I just see words & links but never the actual person. You can’t punch somebody in the face online and that’s always bothered me. To quote Young Buck, “sometimes… I just get confused.”
But I shouldn’t involve you in my war against technology, fam. You ain’t do nuthin wrong, you were just bein thorough & bringin additional info to the table.
So… I’m sorry. If I met you, I’d give you a hug & a couple of noogies, just like my lil’ brother.
The real Barksdale is lookin more like Bubblez lol
iN REFERENCE TO WILLIAMS AND BARKSDALE’S COMMENTS ON BLACK STORY TELLING. IT WAS MORE ABOUT BLACK PEOPLE NOT GETTING COMPENSATED PROPERLY FOR THEIR STORIES. THE POINT WAS WHEN BLACKS TELL THEIR OWN STORIES, THEY DO NOT GET THE PROPER ACCLAIM, CREDITS, OR CASH. THE FACT THAT SIMON ALSO WROTE THE CORNER IS EXACTLY WHAT WILLIAMS IS TALKING ABOUT. WHERE DO YOU THINK SIMON GOT HIS INFORMATION FROM. SIMON IS WHITE AND HE SURE AS HELL DID NOT LIVE ANY OF WHAT HE DEPICTED ON THE CORNER IN HIS BWRITINGS. HE JUST HIJACKED ANOTHER BLACK EXPERIENCE AND GOT PAID FOR IT. WHICH IS EXACTLY THE POINT. HE WAS NOT ACCUSED OF GLORIFYING A CERTAIN LIFESTYLE OR CASHING IN ON A NEGATIVE LIFESTYLE. THE BIG STUDIOS RARELY ACCEPT STORIES FROM BLACK SCREEN WRITERS OR ON BLACK EXPERIENCES. MUCH PROPS GO OUT TO TYLER PERRY WHO HAS HIS OWN SOUNDSTAGE TO CREATE AND SHOOT HIS PROJECTS. AND AS YOU SEE IT TOOK THE LEVERAGE OF BOTH TYLER PERRY AND OPRAH WINFREY TO GET PRECIOUS ON SCREEN AND ITS SUBSEQUENT OSCAR NODS. EVEN AFTER WHITE HOLLYWOOD DISTRIBUTORS LIMITED THE SCREENS IT PLAYED ON. THE POINT I THINK OF THEIR MESSAGE IS BLACKS SHOULD GET PAID FOR THEIR STORY LIKE EVERYONE ELSE. SIMON CLAIMS THESE STORIES ARE FICTIONAL CHARACTERS SO HE WONT HAVE TO PAY PEOPLE. WHILE HOLLWOOD, TV, ETC. WONT ACCEPT BLACK STORIES FROM BLACKS, AND WILL NOT GIVE MAJOR STUDIO FINANCING TO THE BLACK CREATIVE FILM MAKERS, WHICH FORCES THEM TO DO THE “CRAPPY DVD” THING BECAUSE THEY HAVE TO FINANCE THE PROJECTS THEMSELVES AND COME FAR SHORT OF THE PROPER MULTI MILLION DOLLAR BUDGETS TO COMPETE WITH THE MAJORS.
^why don’t you respect our intelligence and hit that caps lock key one more time fella..
Dutton won an Emmy for directing “The Corner”, and it won for best miniseries too. I’m just sayin.
I’ve got EXTRA DOPE stashed under the floorboards at THE SPIZZY.
Never-seen-before VIDEO FOOTAGE of the AVON BARKSDALE interview, exclusive photos and BONUS COMMENTARY from CHAZ WILLIAMS of Black Hand.
THE REAL AVON BARKSDALE-NO CUT
http://spizzyblog.com/2010/03/02/the-real-avon-barksdale-no-cut/
I’ve seen the docudrama… And it was good, I’m trippin on some of the comments from people cause they r talking like they did or seen more in their lifetime than this man seen in a decade that he was doin his thing. I don’t see it as he’s trying to cash in on the bad that he has done, I see a bunch of other people cashing in on his story… And I mean Millions $$$. Y can’t he get q piece of that? It’s his life that they r make millions off of!!! If the real Avon reads this… Man keep ur head up and try to make positive moves to help the youth… They need it!!!
I watched the documentary 3 times already, I never could sit thru one episode of the wire and I always wondered why the corner wasn’t more popular than the wire. Having watched this documentary and other urban documentaries I do believe that certain facts shouldn’t be exposed to a nation of critics that don’t understand what it means to come from a urban environment. They always seem to criticize the wrong things: why would u care if the documentary was done with a hand-held camera with c-list actors, what do it matter what his mother named him or called him, also since when do it matter what the person looks like; I always thought it was about the message not the messenger.
And yes Barksdale does a wonderful job at getting his message across, I mean he took over a whole city (politicians including), survived multiple assassinations, made millions/billions of dollors, lost loved ones, served his time, and now he is letting other young black men, deprived of a chance to receive proper education, see that the streets will always be there…so make something more of your life!