Is Hip-Hop Finally Dead?
EDUTAINMENT By MZ on October 25, 2009 at 12:00 pm
^ It is to this guy.
In the latest issue of The New Yorker Sasha Frere-Jones has declared 2009 as the year Hip-Hop died. His main reasons? The Blueprint 3, Raekwon & Freddie Gibbs of course.
If I had to pick a year for hip-hop’s demise, though, I would choose 2009, not 2006. Jay-Z’s new album, “The Blueprint 3,” and some self-released mixtapes by Freddie Gibbs are demonstrating, in almost opposite ways, that hip-hop is no longer the avant-garde, or even the timekeeper, for pop music. Hip-hop has relinquished the controls and splintered into a variety of forms. The top spot is not a particularly safe perch, and every vital genre eventually finds shelter lower down, with an organic audience, or moves horizontally into combination with other, sturdier forms. Disco, it turns out, is always a good default move.
Hip-hop, a spinoff from New York City’s early disco culture, has been a commercial proposition since the release of “Rapper’s Delight,” in 1979. That’s thirty years, a long time for any genre. If you want to be conservative and decide that mainstream cultural relevance kicked in toward the end of the eighties, with New York’s golden age and the quick follow-up of gangsta rap, the wildly popular genre from Los Angeles, that still leaves twenty years of cultural impact. This may be a fine time for hip-hop to atomize. The original form has done an awful lot of work.
Basically, he didn’t like The Blueprint 3. What he said didn’t really go too far outside of what our own review of the album said: It wasn’t Jay-Z at his best, he tried too hard to hop on the sonic wave CuDi & Kanye were riding & he didn’t really connect subject wise with his fan base. But he also said that “Death Of Auto-Tune” was the only vital track on the album. He then calls Raekwon lazy for revisiting old themes on OB4CL… Pt. 2, despite the fact that it’s a sequel. That’s like lambasting Empire Strikes Back for picking up where Star Wars left off. He ends the article by praising Freddie Gibbs for eschewing the status quo of a record label and releasing his own mixtapes full of lyrics over original beats.
So because of this Hip-Hop is dead?
On my first read through his article over at KTL, I got mad. I mean who is this guy to say that Hip-Hop is dead? But upon reading his article a few more times and finding an accompanying podcast , I realized that he’s talking about the end of Hip-Hop being at the forefront of Pop music. Frere-Jones isn’t The New Yorker’s Hip-Hop critic; he’s the Pop critic. Hip-Hop isn’t dead; Frere-Jones is just bored with it. There’s nothing wrong with that. Just take a break or find something that you like. From what was said about Gangsta Gibbs, it sounds likes he already has. I really don’t have a problem with the article itself, just the fact that he falls short of the mark on making his desired statement. Hip-Hip is about to be dead to this writer because nothing’s recently had the Pop influence of say “A Milli” or Tha Carter 3 (which he said may be the last “great” Hip-Hop album). I disagree with that to some degree, but everyone’s entitled to their opinion.
I imagined this originally being a rallying cry to defend Hip-Hop, but it’s not needed. The Pop music scene may be growing tired of Hip-Hop…but that’s no concern of ours.
Wrapping Up (Jay-Z, Freddie Gibbs & The End Of Hip-Hop) [The New Yorker]
Posted in EDUTAINMENT, GENERAL, SMOKE BREAK, THE NEW MODEL — Tags: Freddie Gibbs, Jay-Z, Raekwon, Sasha Frere-Jones, The Blueprint 3, The New Yorker
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The Pop music scene may be growing tired of Hip-Hop…but that’s no concern of ours.
well said
he makes a valid point but i don’t agree with his examples fully. I agree hip hop/rap is definitely more splintered than ever. Its not a regional thing anymore it’s a style thing. Different artists are making different styles of music all under the hip hop umbrella. Its definitely not dead, but it’s got some serious tumors that need to be looked at closer to make sure they aren’t cancerous.
Fuck a Pop chart.
Hip-Hop going Pop hurt it just as much as it helped it.
“a spinoff from New York City’s early disco culture”
all respect gone after that statement.
how is it not a spinoff of disco. Hip hop originally was about the party scene… kinda like disco
“heard it all beforeeeeeeee….” – (c) Sunshine Anderson
where does he call Rae lazy? he calls CL II urgent (the album is currently his number 9 for the year fwiw)
Except hip-hop WAS a “spin-off” of disco. The cats from the 70’s would take the disco joints and use the, what they would call “the get-down” part and extend that to make their songs.
Can’t revise history because you don’t like it. Hip-hop’s come a long way since then. …Kinda.
“a spinoff from New York City’s early disco culture”
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Except hip-hop WAS a “spin-off” of disco.
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Indeed it was so there’s no refuting that statement.
I don’t mind the music going back towards its subculture roots. We need it badly. I’ve said it a million times, Freddie, Mikkey, Pill, Playboy Tre. we need them and what they bring. Their music has very few traces of pop aspirations, radio or video play. in today’s viral video and internet spreading the word, they don’t need it either. What we could use is more fans spreading the word and showing a little financial support by whatever methods so these cats can eek out a decent living from making the music. that’s very important b/c i don’t think any of them could be as good & effective if they were doing a day job, then coming home to try to make a song or two. Patronage is pretty key.
you’ll have to listen to the podcast Nick. He didn’t flat out call him lazy, but scolded him for basically revisiting OB4CL instead of doing something new. A lot of what he said wasn’t wrong, but I don’t think he established enough in his article that he was talking about how Hip-Hop is dead from a Pop standpoint because it’s not pushing new grounf (which is still debateable).
Because from hearing him talk, he’s actually pretty well versed in the music.
Yea they used disco records, But also James Brown, Sly Stone and basicaly anything with a break. Do we really need to go over this? Hip-Hop was block parties and park jams, not no Studio 54 type shit. Saying that Hip-Hop is a spin-off from disco means that basically disco birthed Hip-Hop. How is that when Kool Herc was extending breaks in ‘72, ‘73? And what does break dancing, graff and even rapping have to do with disco? Absolutely nothing. This clown assumes that because both genres were born in the 70’s and have Black roots that they somehow have a relationship. Now I’m not saying that they didn’t mesh with each other at various times, but I can tell you this: There would still have been a Hip-Hop cuture/movement even if disco was never invented.
Sasha Frere-Jones is letting his elitism and age show. Raekwon stated purpose was to go retro and revsisit that era, done to perfection. Jay-Z didn’t make a classic, but he still #1, but he saved the commerical aspect by selling like crazy.
Listing two records as the downfall of hip-hop is as stupid and wishing for the golden era of one’s youth to magically re-appear. I’m sure for young cats like Kid Cudi, Wale and all post Kanye West rappers, the new cats are just as interesting to todays youth.
Frere-Jones you can keep wishing for a Pavement reunion record.
I don’t know who this guy is but I think it’s safe to assume he hasn’t spent much time in the streets, in the clubs, or anywhere that can relate realistically to Hip-Hop. You can study the entire history of the music, memorize every Big Daddy Kane and DJ Quik lyric, but unless you been there, your comments will always be coming from the perspective of an outsider.
i don’t really care what anyone says, BP3 is actually a pretty good album. Out of the several that dropped around the same time, it’s had the most staying power in my listening rotation. it’s not great or groundbreaking, but it’s definitely good.
^^^
Jay-Z doesn’t make bad albums. Never has, never will.
More importantly, what does this mean for 50?
I haven’t listened to BP3 in weeks and have zero desire to. That’s not typical of Jay-Z albums.
Thats just it Gotty…I dont know when it happened, but at some point everybody decided that every single album has to be a fucking masterpiece, and anything less is a failure. Whats wrong with just having a good album? BP3 isn’t great, but if you a Jay fan it’s a good listen. People analyze shit too much, just listen to the damn music. Maybe if we listened to music out of something other than computer speakers we wouldn’t be so judgmental. BP3 in the whip > BP3 in my laptop. “Venus Vs. Mars” has crazy bass that you can’t even hear without the proper audio set up. Trust.
Who cares about the beat when the lyrics are so shallow?
And I’ve heard BP3 in the whip, on my laptop & on my iPod.
My opinion remains the same.
If I don’t like it, I don’t like it.
What’s wrong with that?
Jay-Z doesn’t make bad albums. Never has, never will.
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So those albums with R. Kelly were good?
The fact that he said the Carter 3 “may be the last great Hip-Hop album” is an automatic fail.
I didn’t think he was dissing Cuban linx 2 MZ. I think he said something along the lines of “there’s an underground crew making good music but its sticking to a familiar formula.”
ZING!
@ Pat
I know he wasn’t dissing it, but he dissed the process for him not trying something new. As if he had nothing better to say. At least that’s what I got from it.
There is more talented emcee now than 1979 89 99 the standards are just not the same…
I know he wasn’t dissing it, but he dissed the process for him not trying something new. As if he had nothing better to say.
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But Rae really has nothing new to say. OB4CL2 is the same content wise as every album in Rae’s discog.
So those albums with R. Kelly were good?
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Jay’s raps were pretty good on that joint…plus it was a party type record to me anyway.
Patronage is pretty key.
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Gotta get back to supporting the artist and stop dl ish. I do my fair share of dl, but I’m spent crazy $ for albums this year.
Bp3 is one of the better albums this year to me.
I haven’t listened to BP3 in weeks and have zero desire to. That’s not typical of Jay-Z albums.
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I feel like. I think the most interesting fact is the party joints sting more than the “Finally Home’s” and such.
Solo albums Amp. Solo albums.
Bp3 is one of the better albums this year to me.
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Good album, but there were a buncha releases I’d rank higher then it. The detachment in the music on BP3 is off putting.
I think the most interesting fact is the party joints sting more than the “Finally Home’s” and such.
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Agreed. The joints where Jay tries to drop gems just don’t work for me. Maybe because the “Rich nigga talk” works best on those kinda records.
So those albums with R. Kelly were good?
=====================
hehe, fuck that. I like BoBW.
Good album, but there were a buncha releases I’d rank higher then it. The detachment in the music on BP3 is off putting.
================
Please don’t name off a bunch of random unknowns or shit you know the rest of the world ain’t checking for (*cough* M.O.P.*cough*). we’re talking of the big name releases, BP3 was indeed good & listenable. Was it heavy or anything? No. “Detached” as you say? Of sorts but not really. I think lyrically it was up to par w/most of his catalog. It’s the beats that leave you wanting for more.
Commercial rap isn’t dead until Billy in the ‘burbs stops seeing black culture as edgy and rebellious.
And cosign Don Tres. The internets listen to too much music on computer speakers (for obvious reasons). I don’t pass judgement on an album until I’ve heard it in a couple different settings. Computer, car, sober, smoked out, etc.
Yeah… BP3 got edged out for top 10 before it even dropped
Jay-Z rolls over and produces 4 cig albums before a cup of coffee. BP3 is no exception. I still like it & I know a lot of people who still play the hell out of it.
1st BOBW was cool as well.
“Who cares about the beat when the lyrics are so shallow?”
This is just my opinion, but lyricism is overrated. And I don’t mean that in a Soulja Boy ignorant way. I’m a fan of great emcees and lyricists, don’t get me wrong, but visceral lyrics don’t make a great record, good production does. Theres plenty of classic records with mediocre lyrics. I feel it’s more important to flow with the beat than to say some amazing shit. If that was the case, Canibus would be a superstar. As great as he is, I find him boring as hell for the most part. Ol Dirty Bastard, Too Short, The Beatnuts and MOP don’t need crazy lyrics to make some good music.
BP3 was indeed good & listenable. Was it heavy or anything? No. “Detached” as you say? Of sorts but not really. I think lyrically it was up to par w/most of his catalog. It’s the beats that leave you wanting for more.
==============================================
Lyrically, Jay has lost a step. Let’s be real. And some of those rhyme patterns are grating.
I wasn’t totally dissatisfied with the beats. It’s more the lack of any thing of substance that irks me. Jay has a tendency to talk down to the listener this time around. Alot of complaining on how he’s perceived, alot of listing his accomplishments, etc. The “real” moments are what’s missing.
My problem with Jay is that it seems that after the OG BP, he’s been trying to make music that will get him praise in the Rolling Stones and Village Voices of the media world and while I think his ‘writing’ is still as sharp as ever, his music has this gloss that doesn’t totally satisfy long time fans like us. I think what saves him is that he hardly lacks for creativity, even if doesn’t always hit the mark.
Please don’t name off a bunch of random unknowns or shit you know the rest of the world ain’t checking for (*cough* M.O.P.*cough*). we’re talking of the big name releases
============================================
OB4CL2
Slaughterhouse
Deeper Than Rap
Relapse
The Ecstatic
Blackout 2
Street Hop
All dope releases and the year isn’t even over yet.
BP3 will make my top 10 of 09, but it may not make my top 5.
OB4CL2
Slaughterhouse
Deeper Than Rap
Relapse
The Ecstatic
Blackout 2
Street Hop
—————————
Good list, although I’d personally leave that Slaughterhouse album out of it.
Agreed sentiment throughout though.
My one gripe with hip-hop is that it used to set completely new trends. Nowadays, I see it following trends in attempt to keep up with the commercialism of the Pop Joneses, which isn’t reflective of most of its’ long-time fans, so what you’re left with is (generally) a choice between the lesser of two cliches…. Bentley’s and Bubbly, or Crack and Gats.
I really like that song reminder and it seems like everyone else HATES that shit.
am i the only person that breaks there neck bobbing they re head when that shit comes on?
I’m with you Gotty, I was pleasantly surprised by BP3 and it’s gotten the most replay outta those major releases.
Slaughterhouse – Enh, on a personal level and commercially, another album nobody gave a fuck about lol
Deeper Than Rap – Enh, i listened to it enough to say I don’t like anything except that song w/Kanye
Relapse – Enh
The Ecstatic – Agreed. love it
Blackout 2 – Haven’t listened heavily enough to have an opinion, but i don’t think it counts, again, commercially.
Street Hop – ^ rinse, repeat, wash
From reading the article, the author comes across sounding like Peter Rosenberg. Someone who knows a little about the culture and tries to make themselves to be an expert.
lol at even acknowledging the new yorker as a source for any type of hip-hop news. its not read, published, or written by any hip-hop fans. but i realized hip-hop was dead last night when wale came out before jigga last night. this nigga wale and his twisties and his pathetic flow have to remind everyone of that african kid in high school who thought he was that nigga because his pops had money and a 5 year old C class fuck that dude!
Please don’t name off a bunch of random unknowns or shit you know the rest of the world ain’t checking for (*cough* M.O.P.*cough*). we’re talking of the big name releases
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Isn’t this kind of the point? That this album album from Jay, which was at best slightly above mediocre and without a doubt one of his weakest albums, is still one of the better big name releases?
Hip-hop certainly isn’t “dead.” If it were, no one would commenting/reading this blog, but I’d agree that it’s in a transitional stage with people trying new things to see what works. This might be why the rap that is topping the charts (BP3 included) seems so directionless. It might not be that the genre’s directionless, but that no one knows what direction the genres going.
LMAO @ Gotty
Jay-Z is the biggest artist to release an album this year, of course commercial accolades are gonna come his way.
Doesn’t mean it’s better then albums by lesser knowns.
I’m drawing the line in the sand now lol…
DTR > BP3
That this album album from Jay, which was at best slightly above mediocre and without a doubt one of his weakest albums, is still one of the better big name releases?
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Church!!
If BP3 is what’s winning, the rest of the field is fucking up lol.
Deeper Than Rap & The Ecstatic are not better than BP3.
The other ones, got him.
Hip Hop reached it’s apex quite some time ago, however, in terms of popular culture, it still appears to be a staple fixture like ketchup on fries, and I think this will continue for sometime yet, it is ketchup after all, and hip hop in this case is the ketchup on your fries.
Having said this, if you ask me, how many hip hop albums would make it on my top 20 albums of all time, I would say very few. A fair proportion would be, what one would classify as pop music.
The Ecstatic > BP3
OB4CL II > The Estatic > BP3
Sasha Frere-Jones can eat a dick sandwich sideways for writing such an irresponsible article in the New Yorker where the readers will actually go with his take on things because they’re ignorant of Hip Hop for the most part. I sent a message to him directly and let him know I didn’t appreciate his smacking every quality new emcee & femcee in the face and saying they in effect don’t exist.
*Throws up middle finger then switches to threes*
Bloggerhouse!
One.
read the article instead of skimming it, folks.
the writer didn’t dis rae. he actually complimented OB4CL2.
he didn’t dis jay-z either. mr. frere jones is saying that hip-hop music, or what many of us know it to be, is changing. and BP3 is one of the releases pushing that change along. he’s not giving an opinion on it either way, really. he’s pointing out that jay & rae went in two different directions.
what article are ya’all readin?
SFJ compares hip hop to jazz, but i think a better comparison for him would be old school r&b.
i think he’s arguing that rap is in a similar place to where r&b was in the mid to late 60s, we could say 1967, the year otis redding died and the year before Stax split from Atlantic. you could argue that traditional r&b ended then, but the music certainly didn’t die. instead it became an element of musics such as soul, funk, and enventually hip hop. meanwhile, it had a massive influence on the Jamaican soundsystem culture, which too eventually led to hip-hop but that’s a different story. similarly, you see a lot of hip-hop innovation done overseas, most notably Grime, but it’s really happening everywhere. search “ghana hip-life” if you don’t believe me.
obviously, hip hop is a lot bigger than that old r&b stuff ever was so the comparison is limited, but i think this is the idea he’s going for, or at least my more optimistic version of it
MZ, thanks for the credit, link, and shoutout. Props and respect on the thorough research and putting the conversation to the masses. Enjoyed the read!
He gave OB4CLPII a backhanded compliment.
He did say it was good, but he also chided Rae for not living the lifestyle he was rapping about. It’s evident that he liked the album, but it’s easier to get his full view from listening to the podcast as well as the article.
To me, Rap is going thru what Rock went thru in the 80’s… that “Hair Metal” phase where the music was empty & it was all about vanity. Rock stars tryin’ to look like chicks & stuff… sound familiar? Rock sucked for a long while, then years later groups like Nirvana, Pearl Jam & Soundgarden introduced grunge, which was much artistic, grimier & harder-edged. That killed the wack-ass hair-metal movement & everybody emulated grunge after that. I think the same shit will happen with Rap someday.
Another reason why Rap is fucked up is b’cuz it’s the ONLY music genre, perhaps the only genre of art period, with a disdain for its past. Rap has NO respect for it’s pioneers & that’s a huge reason why its growth is stunted artistically. It’s the only so-called “art form” that actually preaches AGAINST longevity. How backwards is that shit? Mick Jagger & Madonna and them can rock out & get paper ’til their 50’s & 60′ & nobody cock-blocks. When an artform is disconnected from it’s past as badly as Rap is, it’s gonna be hard for that artform to survive.
Niggaz want Jay to move out the way so they can eat, like he takin money out they mouths. Jay & Nas didn’t ask Rakim & Kane to step down, they just came in a made great music. That’s how they got noticed. There was no hate. And b’cuz stylistically, Jay took a cue from Kane & Nas took a cue from Ra, tradition kept going & the artform thrived.
^ very good points sir. You must’ve smoked some good shit lol. Seriously though, can’t argue w/none of that.
almost anything > deeper than rap. am i the only person who thought rick ross’s fake schtick got work out with that occasionally amazing first album. the man should’ve retired after Hustlin’ dropped.
“Gotta get back to supporting the artist and stop dl ish. I do my fair share of dl, but I’m spent crazy $ for albums this year.”
Hell yeah I was hitting Best Buy every week in September.
As for 2009 declaring hiphop’s death, I think this has been one of the better years in music. And I understand the author’s stance as far as what hip hop is in Pop music, but Q-Tip said it best:
“Rap is not pop/ If you call it that then stop”
“He then calls Raekwon lazy for revisiting old themes on OB4CL… Pt. 2, despite the fact that it’s a sequel. That’s like lambasting Empire Strikes Back for picking up where Star Wars left off. ”
OB4CLII is a sequel. What The Empire STrike Back did was pick up and build on. OB4CLII basically steps back and tries to mimmick what was so great about OB4CL. Do you see the difference? Taking a story futher and adding on. Or retelling the same story again. And that was what OB4CLII did.
There is quite a list of albums that dropped this year that were better than bp3. In my opinion, for the fans, this has easily been the best year for hip hop this decade. From old emcees: jay, rae, GFK, Red and Meth, Jada, DOOM. To young emcees: Skyzoo, Fashawn, Wale (back 2 the feature in case his debut gets delayed), torae etc. As well as The clipse, nas and damien marley’s joint, royce’s album, slaughterhouse, del and tame one…..the list goes on. Ive even got a back log of shit to bump.
fan or not, i’ll give Jay one thing…. he sure knows how to create a topic of discussion. I’m not going to knock Mr. Jones for his opinion. That’s what we have a voice for. As we can see people have different taste in music. We have some on here that appear to worship Jay, while others (such as myself) can do without him. Who cares.. That’s what makes it fun. I would like to say as far as albums go, Sky and Royce take the cake thus far. I don’t know if another album will drop this year that will top those two.
This was a good read.
@k strick the culture can equal crabs in a barrel sometimes…
equal to*
@KING_KG
true. but “crabs in a barrel” goes beyond hip-hop culture.
that’s just black folks in general.
Kinda mad I missed all this. Hip-Hop ain’t dead, BP3 and OB4CL2 are both GOOD albums, Hip-Hop came from Disco, Funk, Rhythm and Blues, Jazz, and Rock, and Sasha Frere-Jones can suck my dick. – D.S.
Cor-zined everything Don Très said.
This article was a massive waste of Keyboard Clicks.
interesting, because last time i checked, b.e.p. is a hip-hop group that is consistently number one on the pop charts.
Sirs; I was doing the hip-hop during the great depression of the nineteen thirties, so what do you mean that it is a spinoff of later arts?
Arthur here again, If you want my picture, I look just like the Durango Kid of the great depression movies run. I am now eighty years old.
Mainstream hip hop is dead but the underground lives on!
BP3 is the album of the year and there were alotta other great hiphop releases from the likes of Ross Fab and Em to name a few. Certainly not dead.
If anything it benefits hip hop to not be the number one pop genre
whoever is on top never the best anyways, the most popular i mean, flo rida souljah boy
if not being number one means we have less of those rappers then this aritcle clearly shows that rap is turning in a better direction
not being on top will allow hip hop to grow and foster a stronger group of artists
sasha-frere jones should realize this and not herald his material with sensationalist titles in a transparent attempt to gain more attention
anyone who properly reads his article absolutely knows that he doesn’t think hip hop is dead at all
HipHop aint dead….yet.
But it’s dying though.
Hiphop is getting wacker by the day.
No growth and oversaturation will make it less interesting for the people who go through changes.
bp3 is not “album of the year”
I was going to kill the guys piece, then I read it. He was on the money. What I don’t like about Jay’s album is what has made him a success. He has always had the smarts to ride a trend while always look like he was leading the pack.
Do I agree with the entire piece? No, but I do have money on Freddie Gibbs. He is dope.
Just like absolutely EVERY genre of music, Hip-Hop is falling hard to the music industry’s equations. They were very economically viable for a while, but it’s pretty easy to see that a tipping point isn’t out of question due to blatant market saturation. I feel as though the Industry’s next step is to usher in a new wave of bullshit country stars. Also, I personally don’t believe that Hip-Hop could ever be considered pop music per se. Pop music to me is a rotation of many genres based on their popularity at the time. Music made to fit the popular mold at the time is then considered pop music (bastardized, but still).
@EvanMCG
…..not being on top will allow hip hop to grow and foster a stronger group of artists
…..anyone who properly reads his article absolutely knows that he doesn’t think hip hop is dead at all
^On point, sir.
What we need to decipher is true Hip-Hop from equation based popular Hip-Hop and eradicate it.
Support mixtapes, underground artists and producers. Download as much as you can (with their consent). Share it with your friends, let Hip-Hop catch a fresh breath of air.
When a friend of mine started arguing for the legitimacy of some of the artists out right now, I just shook my head and handed him a mixtape. The next day he thanked me, and I told him to go to our indie store and buy what he liked.
Well said AmpGeez. Hip hop is definitely not dead. Its just going through a stage of evolution. A separation of the real from the fake, of the talent from the clones, of the true artists from the wanna-be’s. Its gonna take some time to see how this all plays out, but it will be for the better
Theres way too much intellectual posturing going on in this thread (and hip hop in general)
Leave that shit alone, its about the music, you talk like you’re getting paid by the word for your opinion, that shit is disgusting.
In fact, over-intellectualising music at all is disgusting.
You should go start up the hip hop version of Pitchfork so we can be sick all over your seasame street sneakers.
We are in the ‘Pre-The-State-Vs-Radric-Davis’ part of history right now so all you little internet rap critics stfu untill that comes out alright