Sibling Rivalry: Jay-Z & Kanye West
AUDIO By J. Tinsley on August 2, 2009 at 3:15 pm
Without a fancy intro or provocative thesis statement, simply put, Jay and ‘Ye have been going at each other’s throats for the better part of a decade. Their latest project didn’t help calm the debate either. Similar to how I’ve done in the past, I’ve taken the liberty to flashback and examine their rich and competitive lyrical history.
For the record, the only songs considered valid were records they’ve appeared on together (with one exception). Anyway, let’s talking, more research. Without further adieu, bring on the debate.
2003
Jay-Z Feat. Kanye West – “Girls, Girls, Girls” (Remix)
Jay’s Quotables: “She call me professor, say ‘Daddy come and test us’/ So she can fail on purpose and repeat the semester/ I’m like, ‘At this rate ma, you’ll never graduate’/ She said, ‘I ain’t no fool, I’ll make it up in summer school…’”
Kanye’s Quotables: “You remind me of my jeep but not Nokia/ We can talk on my cell but not Nokia/ It be goin’ in and out that’s why i barely hear ya/ It be goin’ in and out like a robberia/ I’m tryna take dis money like Rob and Gia/ And I’m a take you to my house like Trick and Trina…”
Synopsis: It wasn’t an official remix, but best believe if Kanye made the beat, you know he had to have verses on it. His offering was catchy as all hell, but you’d be hard pressed to find someone who did this track more justice than Jay.
Jay-Z -1
Kanye – 0
Jay-Z Feat. Kanye West – “Excuse Me Miss Again”
Jay: “He patterns hisself the rap J.F.K., you wanna pass for my Jacqueline Onassis?/ Then, hop ya ass outta that S-Class/ Lay back in that Maybach, roll the best grass/ I ask/ Have you in your long-legged life ever seen a watch surrounded by this much pink ice?”
Kanye: “So you take the Destiny Child girl in the Coupe/ And I’ma try bag the ones that got kicked out the group/ I figured that’ll be simple, I’ll just help ‘em with their demo/ Help ‘em to the limo, play the I’m Good instrumentals/ And she – grabbed my tattoo, peeped my credentials/ And she – grabbed my pants, felt the potential/ And I – brought ’bout every essential/ To have fun breakin’ her fundamentals…”
Synopsis: I always wanted this to be over the original “Excuse Me Miss” instrumental. Yet and still, as much as I loved “La, La, La”, that Kanye line was just too sick to ignore.
Jay-Z-1
Kanye -1
Jay-Z Feat. Kanye West – “The Bounce” (from The Blueprint²: The Gift & The Curse)
Jay: “Rumor has it, The Blueprint classic/ Couldn’t even been stopped by Bin Laden/ So September 11th marks the era forever of the revolutionary Jay Guevara…”
Kanye: “Did ‘Takeover’, do you got beef with Nas?/ I did take over the game, brought back the soul/ Got tracks to go, got plaques that’s sold/ Platinum and gold, yeah that’s the flow…”
Synopsis: Two years after providing the framework for the original Blueprint, ‘Ye gets his first mainstream opportunity to go bar for bar with Jay on the second installment. While Jay’s intro bars were nothing short of amazing, there aren’t many artists who’ve outshined Hov, let alone a newcomer. Kanye can say both.
Jay-Z – 1
Kanye – 2
Talib Kweli Feat. Mos Def, Jay-Z, Kanye West & Busta Rhymes- “Get By” (Remix)
Jay: “Just to get by nigga I sold dope/ Nigga I pushed lah/ Carried a fo-five, claimed I was ‘Ready To Die’/ Promised never to cry, held it all inside…”
Kanye: “Lord willin’ I ain’t killed nobody/ But I have a feeling with this album that I’m gonna make a killin’/ Or not a schilling, this is love it or hate it music/ But…at least we made it music/ And we didn’t make it industry/ This is gon’ be interesting/ This’ll be the end of me or I’m going to be an entity…”
Synopsis: For as dope as Jay’s verse was, Kanye’s was prophetic. Pretty much everything he said has come true. I feel bad for Talib, however. No one ever quotes his verse.
Jay-Z – 1
Kanye – 3
2004
Kanye West Feat. Jay-Z & J-Ivy “Never Let Me Down” (from The College Dropout)
Jay: “Young, the archbishop/ The Pope John Paul of y’all niggas the way y’all all follow Jigga/ Hov’s a living legend and I tell you why/ Everybody wanna be Hov/ And Hov still alive…”
Kanye: “I get down for my grandfather who took my mama/ Made her sit in that seat where white folks ain’t want us to eat/ At the tender age of six, she was arrested for the sit-ins/ And with that in my blood, I was born to be different…”
Synopsis: While it was painfully difficult to pick against Kanye considering his subject matter, Jay was just too much to ignore.
Jay-Z – 2
Kanye – 3
2005
Kanye West Feat. Jay-Z – “Diamonds From Sierra Leone (Remix)” (from Late Registration)
Jay: “How could you falter when you’re the Rock of Gibraltar/ I had to get off the boat so I can walk on water/ This ain’t no tall order, this is nothin’ to me/ Difficult takes a day, impossible takes a week…”
Kanye: “People askin’ me is I’m gon’ give my chain back/ That’ll be the same day I give the game back/ You know the next question, ‘Dog yo, where Dame at?”
Synopsis: The sad thing is, Kanye’s verse was hot, but Jay stole the show, the song and the acclaim thereafter with his. ‘Ye, himself, went on to confirm it on “Big Brother.” What was the lesson in all this you ask? 1) Even in “retirement,” Jay was NOT to be fucked with and 2) Bleek was officially awarded his “full scholarship” on life. Kick back young man, it’s green pastures from here.
Jay-Z – 3
Kanye – 3
2008
Young Jeezy Feat. Kanye West – “Put On” (from The Recession)
Young Jeezy Feat. Jay-Z – “Put On” (Remix) (from The Recession)
Jay: “I put Mike Jack on stage, Summer Jam ‘Billie Jean’/ I put Prodigy in his place on that Summer Jam screen/ I put ‘Preme in my truck, told him leave them streets alone/ I predicted jail would happen, shit I tried to put him on/ All these niggas takin’ credit for the work that I put in/ If you really put me on, put yo’ self on then…”
Kanye: “I feel like it’s still niggas that owe me checks/ I feel like it’s still bitches that owe me sex/ I feel like these butt niggas don’t know this stress/ I lost the only girl in the world that know me best…”
Synopsis: Here’s the exception I was referring to. I know this selection is going to ruffle quite a few feathers, but Jay gets the vote by THIS much. With that said, I think we’ve all wanted ‘at least one of Russell’s neices’ at some point.
Jay-Z – 4
Kanye – 3
T.I. Feat. Kanye West, Jay-Z & Lil Wayne – “Swagger Like Us” (from Paper Trail)
Jay: “But I can’t teach you my swag, you can pay for school but you can’t buy class/ School of Hard Knocks, I’m a grad/ And that all blue Yankee is my graduation cap…”
Kanye: “My attitude is tattooed/ That means it’s permanent, so I guess we should address it (huh)/ My swagger is Mick Jagger/ Everytime I breathe on the track, I asthma attack it…”
Synopsis: In hindsight, they were both battling for second since T.I. had the best showing. Kanye wins because of Jay’s brief stint into singing towards the end of his verse.
Jay-Z – 4
Kanye -4
2009
DJ Khaled Feat. Jay-Z, T-Pain & Kanye West – “Go Hard” (Remix)
Jay: “On dark nights, it’s like I see better/ On ‘Dark Knight’s’ I’m like Heath Ledger/ Even if I overdose on drugs motherfuckers can’t kill my buzz…”
Kanye: “I’m a tell you like George Bush told me/ Fuck y’all niggas I’m outta here…”
Synopsis: Jay proclaimed he would go harder than “bay bro” and an argument can be made he did. On this record, however, Jay was Johnny Drama while ‘Ye served as Vinnie Chase.
Jay-Z – 4
Kanye – 5
Jay-Z Feat. Rihanna & Kanye West – “Run This Town” (from The Blueprint³)
Jay: “And they ain’t spendin’ no cake/ They should throw they hand in cause they ain’t got no spades/ My whole team got dough/ So my bankhead is lookin’ like “Millionaire’s Row…”
Kanye: “We give a damn about the drama that you do bring/ I’m just tryin change the color of your mood ring/ Reebok baby? You need to try some new things/ Have you ever had shoes without shoe strings?/ What’s that Ye? Baby these heels/ Is that a May…Whattt?/ Baby these wheels/ You trippin’ when you ain’t sippin’, have a refill/ You feel like you running huh? Now you know how we feel…”
Synopsis: The most lopsided of the entire bunch. Sorry if that was anti-climatic.
Jay-Z – 4
Kanye – 6
So, there it is. What’s your take? 6-4 Jay? 7-3 Kanye? Whatever your tally amounts to, one thing’s for sure. It won’t be easy.
Posted in AUDIO, GENERAL, LOOSIES, MUSIC — Tags: Jay-Z, Kanye West, Rocafella Records, T.I., Talib Kweli, Young Jeezy
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138 Comments
I think you need to award Jay bonus points for murderin Ye on his own shit on Never Let me Down and Diamonds. Two of the best verses on both those albums.
Damn good write up.
Damn good.
‘Ye got some fire in him… if he can focus enough… he can go toe to toe with his big bro.
But somewhere… somehow… Jay got that Ace of Spades (no pun immediately intended) up his sleeve, waiting in the wings…
It’ll be years before this is settled. I see your argument, though. Hov is starting to show his age. “D.O.A.” had me rethinking that. Then he drops “Run This Town”. Not quite as bad as Eminem on “Renegades”, but it’s not looking too far fetched now. I really hope this album lives up to the hype.
That Slaughterhouse is Ricky Retardo, by the way…
someone’s a diehard ‘yehead…more slant than fox news, homie.
You should give credit to Consequence, Rhymefest, Big Sean and everyone else who wrote all of Ye’s verses. Nice article nonetheless.
piff
Interesting Read to say the least. I could sworn Jay topped ‘Ye on more occasions. This post is sure to ruffle some feat-eat-hers tho…
I think you need to award Jay bonus points for murderin Ye on his own shit on Never Let me Down and Diamonds. Two of the best verses on both those albums.
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pretty much
fresh read mannnnnn! is the downfall of Jay-Z already upon us?
go hard rmx
jigga won
sorry
and u can admit that jigga was also dope on the bounce but
5/5 minimum, even if jay is betta… ye steps his game up
nice write up, jay is scared of ye’s potential even though he tries to capitalize on things ye does musically, I dont see them ever really battle it out even in a friendly free style session. and to say jay should get bonus points for standing out on ye’s song is a backwards and boneheaded idea, think about it really the feature is supposed to stand out and bring that weapon x to a song. Hell ye should get bonus points for standing out on jay songs and producing the beats then if yall want to make that a fair argument on points
It’s a draw… I give “The Bounce” to Jay.
c/s patrick m.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oZkzPnNYJ4
someone’s a diehard ‘yehead…more slant than fox news, homie.
========================================================
Lol, nahhh not even man. It’s just my sole opinion. Nothing I said here is a “fact.” Not saying ‘Ye is a better rapper than Jay, I just believe he’s topped Jay more times than not when they appear on the same record.
Not asking anyone to agree with me, just wanted to start a fresh debate on a Sunday afternoon.
I can argue that the only songs that we can definitively say that Ye had the better verse are Put on and obviously Run this town. Maybe Go hard, but the rest are all Jay. In fact as someone earlier stated he should get bonus points for absolutely merking Ye on diamonds n never let u down.
I’m sorry but The Bounce, Go Hard (Remix), and Swagga Like Us have to go to Jay. You didnt even pick the best line from Go Hard (Remix) which if you ask me was when Jay said,
“Big homie from the back block
When you first learn how to slap box
Then you either learn how to chill with the pill
Or handle the pot bring it back rock
Number one rule if your ass get popped
Don’t chatter box to the Matlocks”
as for Swagga Like Us, Ye loses points for auto-tuning the whole verse and that Mick Jagger line was weak.
There is no way you could actually give the whole thing to Ye unless your a bigger fan of his, but objectively, Jay is still Big Brother
If that’s the case, then Kanye should get bonus points because “Run This Town” will be on BP3 & “The Bounce” was on BP2, right?
At the end of the day, Kanye is the biggest Jay-Z stan. :)
Tins..u gotta give it to Ye on the “Put On” remix. It was waaay deeper than Jay’s verse. All Jay talked about was how cool he is and how he’s a boss and puts niggas on. Ye said (which u already know) “I lost the ONLY women n the world that know me best.”..crucial verse..then killed when he said he got the money and the fame but it dont mean shit…he GOT THE JESUS ON HIS CHAIN but it dont mean shit???? come on tins
well if yall wanna go wit extra points…jay should lose some for that gahbij ass SLU verse, plus Ye’s Put on verse was EPIC and jay’s barely made a ripple
Good Ass Job >>> Blueprint 3
This is a great post…
Good Ass Job >>> Blueprint 3
========================
Comparing two albums that don’t exist yet. Awesome!
Jay is still Big Brother
======
Pretty much….he is pushing grandpa status
Kanye has stepped up his MCing; but I can’t agree with the tally. Run this Rown and Go Hard are the only joints Kanye ‘renegade’ed’ Jay-Z
Lol, nahhh not even man. It’s just my sole opinion. Nothing I said here is a “fact.” Not saying ‘Ye is a better rapper than Jay, I just believe he’s topped Jay more times than not when they appear on the same record.
I’d co-sign that. But on “Go Hard” Jay murks him, and on “Never Let Me Down” J. Ivy just obliterates. I don’t think anyone gets a point there.
as for Swagga Like Us, Ye loses points for auto-tuning the whole verse
============
that’s…just retarded
At the end of the day, Kanye is the biggest Jay-Z stan. :)
===========
this is why he called Nas the greatest…ok
oh & cosign MZ on that extra point business.
this is why he called Nas the greatest…ok
=================================
And at the end of the day the proceeds for the re-release of The Blueprint and Blueprint 2 are going to the Nas child support fund.
This is not a debate until Kanye is a credible contender for GOAT. He’s cool and clever, but he lacks the intangibles that make an MC a contender. I’m a fan, but even Kanye will admit that he’s a nerd.
For what it’s worth, “Go Hard” was the hardest one for me to pick. Hence me saying, “Jay proclaimed he would go harder than “bay bro” and an argument can be made he did.”
I certainly understand all of the debate around that one. But, I picked what I picked lol.
with all due respect, kanye helped revive jay-z’s career
I’ll wait to see what Kanye says.
But Kanye was talking about absolutely nothing on “Go Hard” up until he said, “Imma tell you what George Bush told me, F you Nwords, I’m outta here.”
yeah to me it’s 6/4 jigga but it’s what it’s, ye upgrade iz now so people wanna argue that thing with this
I like Kanye, but c’mon b.
He did not outshine Jay on “The Bounce” or the “Go Hard (Remix)”.
Ye is slowly catching up, but Jay is still the “Bluprint” so to speak.
Your an Idiot.Kanye doesn’t even write his own rhymes so how can you even compare the two. Maybe Rhymefest vs. Jay or Consequence vs. Jay. This is a horrible comparison of two, let me rephrase that, of one rapper and one producer. You are the reason good hip hop is overlooked because of stupid shit like this.
-The Bounce to Ye is an X in my book
-Swagger like us- Jay didn’t body it lyrically but Jay did possess the most “swagger” on the track.
Ye was good but I feel like Ye brings random hot punchlines that he has stashed that connect to no other part of the verse.
Hence the single line quote on “Go Hard” – “I’m a tell you like George Bush told me/ Fuck y’all niggas I’m outta here…” Even though I liked the line, the whole joint was just random. (The same for Run this Town.)
I know its taboo to say it now-a-days ,Jay FTW. IMO
Your an Idiot.Kanye doesn’t even write his own rhymes so how can you even compare the two. Maybe Rhymefest vs. Jay or Consequence vs. Jay. This is a horrible comparison of two, let me rephrase that, of one rapper and one producer. You are the reason good hip hop is overlooked because of stupid shit like this.
Rhymefest’s ghostwrite was for Jesus Walk and Consequence for something else maybe but kanye ain’t dr dre, i don’t think his whole package was ghostwrote. If someone can prove this wit credits
maybe some co-wrote nevertheless but now Ye can write by himself
Your an Idiot.Kanye doesn’t even write his own rhymes so how can you even compare the two. Maybe Rhymefest vs. Jay or Consequence vs. Jay. This is a horrible comparison of two, let me rephrase that, of one rapper and one producer. You are the reason good hip hop is overlooked because of stupid shit like this.
=======================================
Lmao. I apologize for even posting this lol. Didn’t know you’d feel this way man. What ever was I thinking?
Your an Idiot.Kanye doesn’t even write his own rhymes so how can you even compare the two. ======================================
Even if Kanye didn’t write his own rhymes, J. was comparing the quality of the verses themselves not the careers of the artists who spit them.
And this…
“You are the reason good hip hop is overlooked because of stupid shit like this.”
…makes no sense at all.
Fall back duke.
Rule #1 – Don’t ever apologize for your opinions.
@ Dot – come w/ some evidence when you say stuff like that. Outside “Jesus Walks”, what is there?
Rhymefest isn’t in ‘Ye’s circle like that.
Amp, MZ…appreciate it, fellas.
Like I said, I wasn’t posting this hoping the masses would agree with me. For the most part, it’s been a good debate.
very good read….but i dont think that the gay fish beat the jiggaman
if ye didn’t write his own verse that would be nevertheless a nonsense
to compare that even if i understand ya point about the quality fact…
i juste hope that kanye ain’t a secret dr dre or diddy..na i cant trust that
just cuz of consequence n rhymest’s careers.. yahmeen
5-5 Kanye first got ‘em just barely on ‘Never Let Me Down’…but lately Jay is just not as interesting, Kanye is fucking hilarious. I gotta say Swagger Like Us was the biggest lineup on one rap song ever, those are the four most popular rappers in the game right now…those are Jay-Z’s heirs…to me Wayne represents that constantly evolving and copied flow…T.I. is the OG knowledge and Kanye is the primetime entertainer, the critical acclaim
The whole “Kanye don’t write his own verses” argument is moot to me. B/w Snoop saying he didn’t write Blue Carpet to it being known that Dre don’t write shit, Hip-Hop has grown past songwriting credit & that’s for better or worse. It’s the only genre that doesn’t have a collaborative process for songwriting. In certain ways,maybe we need it @ this point so that some innovation comes forth as opposed to all this copycatting of whatever’s hot.
Kanye has his share of “help” writing. But if you tell me that Jay hasn’t “lifted” bits & pieces of his flow & content from his circle, I’d have reason to believe you’re oblvious or lying.
ayo SS, this write up was dope and i completely agree except with the “put on” lol.
cool if i feature this on REUP (reupspot.com)?? hit me up on email!
Teef hit the nail. Kanye’s more entertaining right now & got more quotables…some them in spite of yourself & the ignorance involved wwhatever line(s) lol.
And I’d like to propose “Can’t Tell Me Nothing” as an anthem, a song that could appeal to anyone fresh out of college & into their first job & decent check. When I listen to the first verse, it’s like getting the superpower on Mario Bros. I’m amped & under the illusion that I can take over the world lol
im not really a kanye fan
i wont even listen to 808s & heartbreaks
but i am a big fan of jay-z
that said
youre out your mind if you think jay did to “put on” what kanye did
kanye got the w on that
NICE WRITE UP BUT YOU WERE WRONG ON 3:
“Bounce” – Jay’s 9/11 rap was sick and under the circumstances sold well on one of the gloomiest days in history. Kanye provided dope beat for Takeover, but Jay’s classic lines against his foes is what made that a classic battle rap – murked them with 1/2 bars.
“Swag” – EVERYONE wants to be like Hov, especially Lil Bro who’s his student but hasn’t GRADUATED to the blue yankee cap yet. Ye’s an ARTIST not a RAPPER which is honestly why he’ll always Jay’s undergrad RAP student.
“Go Hard” – Are you kidding me? Jay’s Heath Ledger wordplay is still making people nauseous. He’s the G.O.A.T. of the wordplays. Ye’s Bush verse was extra weak and nothing new.
Kanye is a dope artist, but Hov is the King of the Rap game.
It’s insane how many people desperately want to believe that Ye is a better MC than Hov. It’s like, “If we all hold hands and *really* believe it — err… write about it online — it’ll become true.”
I drown my pain in porsches
I lost my partner to the bullshit
Still tryna hold on to my religion so
I put a couple diamonds in the crosses
Close your eyes see the darkness
That’s what it’s like where I’m from
No lawyers no doctors
So either I go the hardest
Or I could just call this a night
Magazines call me a rock star, girls call me cock star
Billboard, pop star, neighborhood block star
Chi-Town go-gettin pimps, we mobsters
Gingerbread Man even said, “You’re a monster!”
Yeah, that’s how I feel
To be down, you must appeal
To the crew, we’re rated R
O.C., O.G., Bobby Johnson son
Ask me, “Rey-Rey, is that yo’ car?”
I seen MTV, I know who you are
You did “Takeover,” do you got beef with Nas?
I did take over the game, brought back the soul
Got tracks to go, got plaques that’s gold
Platinum to go, yeah that’s the flow
All I, know, I gots the flow
And I don’t play cause I’m from Chicago
that was ill, but sound so much like a Jigga’s touch on this verse, biggest yeezy’s verse with jayz’s style, his best homework co-signed by jiggaman
but jigga’s flow on this joint, deserve a extra bonus on this fight…
It’s insane how many people desperately want to believe that Ye is a better MC than Hov. It’s like, “If we all hold hands and *really* believe it — err… write about it online — it’ll become true.”
========================================
Lol, no one said Kanye was a better MC than Jay. Not once. Jay’s track record is solidified homie and it’s not going anywhere.
People have to stop being so sensitive to stuff at the end of the day and realize it’s all based on opinion.
Greums, I feel you homie. I knew when I made my decision on “Go Hard” it was going to cause the biggest debate.
Respect for your opinion though. Thanks, my dude.
Hov sh*tted all over Put On and Diamonds – dayum!!!
Kanye on the Bounce most people didnt even know he was rapping, similar to Wayne on Hello Brooklyn…thought it was a bridge. He defintley didnt win that 1.
I break this down into real songs (album cuts, i.e.- diamonds, never let you down, Get By) and guest spots on garbage type club songs (swagger like us, put on, go hard)
I expect Kanye to win on those songs, but Jay gets the edge on real songs. (1 exception being run this town)
Awesome post broski. I loved your thoughts on this issue. Though Jay is one of the greatest of all time, if not THE, Kanye does go hard with most of his verses. I agree with your tally. For these songs that they have done together, Ye wins.
sorry to bring up something unrelated, but im trying to get raekwon ft. meth & ghost- “wu ooh” or w/e but the link isnt working. can anyone help me out?
@ Ernie
I’ll re-up in the post in a sec
Am I the only here who thinks none of ‘Ye’s lines are that hard? They’re very much on the surface punch-lines. How innovating. Yawn. Hova makes people think. ‘Ye makes people go “heh.”
the difference between them is jay has that ridiculous wordplay that you might not catch the first time but when you understand it you go….damN..Like even on run this town “And the girls are black birds riding with their DILLINGERS i get more in DEPP if you boys really real enough” like if you get that line then you will see… … Kanye has some real clever stuff but i think it can be simple sometimes…..I love Yeezy tho..
@ tc, thanks alot man, i appreciate it
kanye wests raps are for weak rap internet nerds.
the shit is not real rap ts like gay magazine fashion editorial disposable junk food quasi-homo nothingness,
which means to say its not my personal taste, but you all go right ahead.
For people who can rap that you’v posted in the last little while see:
jay z, lil fame, gucci mane, big noyd, prodigy, ghostface, fuck even ninki minaj has got big giant talent-testicles compared to freakin Gay Fish louie vuitton butt rim champion donatella bowl of fruit punch suede pansy sneaker customising care bear fuck face good producer guy
ahem imo obvs fyi 1
*Random*
Jay>B.I.G. on “Brooklyn’s Finest” and “I Love The Dough” (since this is a sibling rivalry post with the “big brothers”.)
I find it hard to believe cats are giving ye the “crown”
cats should look at the ENTIRE body of work of both folks before saying ye is taking it from Jay….
you’re telling me off the strength of what 3 albums and some guess spots this cat is lyrically better than Jay…
this is like looking at MJ in his yrs with the Wizards and saying yeah Kobe was a much better player…
Actually, I take that back.
Jay > B.I.G. on “Brooklyn’s Finest”
Jay and B.I.G on “I Love The Dough” I consider a draw.
Is this hip hop or what?? Jay-Z’s verses are his and Kanye West’s are not. National Trucker made the only point worth making three posts in
{National Trucker Says:
You should give credit to Consequence, Rhymefest, Big Sean and everyone else who wrote all of Ye’s verses. Nice article nonetheless.}
and was ignored. Unless somebody got evidence to the contrary this isn’t even an argument. Stop getting the rules of this culture twisted please it’s embarrassing.
@ Big Ernie
http://smokingsection.uproxx.com/TSS/2009/04/raekwon-feat-method-man-raekwon-new-wu
@ Barry Washington
B.I.G. > on “Young G’s”
I’m just saying, if we’re seriously going to allow this Kanye argument to fly then by the same standard Dr. Dre should go on everybody’s top all time MC list immediately……………Yeah, didn’t think so.
@OhExtraMoney
Dr. Dre shits on a lot of legendary “rappers” vocally and delivery-wise. Kanye is a good rapper but he’s a great artist.
Did we give Diddy lyrical props for “going in” on Victory?? Let’s not let the hype sweep us away and start comparing rap performers to emcees.
@TC Dr. Dre has a dope voice and a hard delivery, but the emcee points go to Ice Cube, D.O.C and the rest of the line up to Bishop, Game. Eminem ,50 Cent etc… No one’s going to say Dre was better than Cube on the mic. Even if he got off better on a few records.
I think some of yall are so upset that Jay may have potentially “lost” at something that you’re lost sight of the entire post.
I repeat for the one millionth time: No one said Kanye is higher on the all-time list than Jay. It was my personal opinion that I think ‘Ye has gotten Jay more times than Jay has gotten ‘Ye when they’ve appeared or hopped on the same songs together. So all this “giving Kanye the crown” talk is irrelevant.
Lol, over 70 comments in, I think this served its purpose though.
Keep letting small ish slide and be a failure…
Most people say jay killed ye on the diamonds remix… he did, but the diamonds original version is way better than anything jay said
@OhExtraMoney
We can agree to disagree homie.
Got a bop like this
Can’t wear skinny jeans cause my knots don’t fit
No one on the corner got a pocket like this
So I rock Roc jeans cause my knots so thick – rips ye while hes on the track
please follow the leader,
So Eric B we are,
Microphone fiend, this the return of The God,
Peace God -ye cant pull shit like this off
our time apart is our time apart
so love Jay with your mind girl and not your heart
and some day I slow down, but for now I get around
like the late Makiavelli or Perelli twenty inches -ye doesnt have shit like this that you pick up after a few listens
I do this in my sleep
I sold kilos of coke, I’m guessin’ I can sell CDs
I’m not a businessman
I’m a business, man
Let me handle my business, damn – bodied him with two lines
jay’s first verse on run this town is better than kanye’s.
kanye’s is dope, no doubt, but jay’s delivery is so synched up with that fire beat, mr. west’s shit just sounds kinda awkward by comparison, though he does kick it up a notch at the end.
@TC
Absolutely. Jay drops depth in his verse [on Young G's] but BIG’s flow and delivery just consumes the track.
Where’d all the Kanye haters come from, lol. I mean, its one thing to say dude is not to your tastes but,
“kanye wests raps are for weak rap internet nerds.”
So WTF are you “Fred Anker”? A real “G” from “da hood”? Don’t make me laugh. I don’t wanna hear this, “rap for internet nerds” crap when we’re all sitting behind a fucking computer, yo.
I hate it when people don’t know WTF they talking about but act like their opinion is supreme over everyone else’s.
@ OhExtraMoney:
People addressed National Trucker. So your point’s been addressed already: You don’t make outrageous claims and then ask people to “prove you wrong”. Got it backwards–YOU gotta prove the crazy ish you’re saying, otherwise nobody’s hearing you.
I find it hard to believe cats are giving ye the “crown”
============
No way will I give Ye the crown. I’ll give him credit though.
Like even on run this town “And the girls are black birds riding with their DILLINGERS i get more in DEPP if you boys really real enough” like if you get that line then you will see… …
=====================
Well…I’m just going to bow out of this one for a few lol.
Longest thread Evar!
^^ IDK just sayin it’s big.
Jay > Kanye
Kanye can rap and says funny things occasionally. I enjoy it.
End of story
this =mandatory post in an 85 post thread
It’s gotta awhile to go before it becomes the longest thread ever… it’s def a contender though.
“the only songs considered valid were records they’ve appeared on together (with one exception).”
some of yall gotta learn how to read n shit
Fred Anker sucks Gucci mane dick..nuff said
Plus A) there’s no proof that Ye has ghost writers and B) Jay-Z jacks ALOT of lyrics Ex; What do i think of success it sucks too much stress…” Em spit that on MMLP
Jay Wins. Ye’s verse on Run this town is very straight forward, Jays’ is more intricate and takes a few listens to get it. To me Jay wins that one. Forget Run This Town…. Jay just wins because he’s…. “…far from being God….But I work goddamn hard.”
Yeah, the longest is like 500 something.
BTW…lol @ Jay being “deep”. LB is deep. Lupe Fiasco is deep. Every now and again, Jay’ll get deep and so will Kanye, but most of the time with both of them its kinda just shits and giggles time when I put they music on.
I’m not trying to piss anyone off, but…
http://twitter.com/thekidLEGEND/status/3055321811
Jay vs Kanye is no contest at all….in fact it sounds like a punchline or something. When you mention the greatest emcees Kanye is not to be mentioned. Jay ,on the other hand, has earned his stripes to be in the conversation. So how can it even make sense to compare the two like that? It makes no sense. I’m no Jay-Z stan but credit is due. No way in hell or anywhere else that Kanye is on his level lyrically. The fact that he has other people writing for him automatically kills the comparisons lyrically.
From what I can tell 368 is the largest thread.
No way in hell or anywhere else that Kanye is on his level lyrically. The fact that he has other people writing for him automatically kills the comparisons lyrically.
====================
To quote Jay… Even a broken clock is right two times a day. So over a career, it’s Jay easy. For a few songs, it can be interessting.
Great Job J.T. and yes- “Don?t ever apologize for your opinions.”
Kanye West isnt hip hop.
For hip hop you need to be dangerous.
Kanye West makes pop music.
Truth hurts.
Take it or leave it.
Kanye West isnt hip hop.
For hip hop you need to be dangerous.
Kanye West makes pop music.
Truth hurts.
Take it or leave it.
_________________________________________
Explain releasing “Jesus Walks” then you jackass.
Kanye was better on Get By Remix. That was one of Jay’s Best verses. wow
all the links are dead…
^^^
Just download the song right above it then.
Kanye killed “Get by remix”. I still have that on sooo many playlists.
He also kills “this way”. Kanye can be dope, but like I said he is best when he has something funny to say or some clever play on words. There is no way to compare him to Jay-z in terms of a spitta. Jay could rap him under the table all week and twice on sunday (?).
Kanye West isnt hip hop.
For hip hop you need to be dangerous.
Kanye West makes pop music.
Truth hurts.
Take it or leave it.
==============
You’ve obviouly haven’t heard College Dropout…Jesus walks(plus the videos were far more “dangerous” than most), Two words,Never let me down, the 2nd song(i forget the name), all falls down, etc….he may not be the hardest rapper breathing(II) but he said shit in his songs that most folks were afraid to admit.
I lost you after “Kanye West isn’t hip-hop.”
I’m a big Jay & Ye fan more so a Jay fan but you trippin I agree with Greums : Rain Drops shit is even! Jay killed Kanye on the Go Hard Remix!
Agree with most, but the three I’d dispute are…
Go Hard (Remix) – This is Jay all the way, big homie dumded out. However I’ll give Kanye credit. The beginning of his verse seems indicative of how he goes about things. How he’s always tryin to top everyone else, even when the odds are against him.
Swagga Like Us – Jay’s verse has been sampled at least two or three times already. If that doesn’t make it a “notable quotable” I don’t know what would. Know I’m in the minority, but I never was that impressed by T.I.’s verse.
Put On – Kanye… hands down. Not only is it the best verse on the entire album (sorry Jeezy). It’s easily one of Kanye’s best verses. I’ll even go one step further and say it might be one of the best guest features in Hip-Hop history… seriously it’s that good. Duke gets a lot of shit for his ego trippin and whatev, but gotta give credit where credit is due…
Also some mofo’s need hooked on phonics or some shit, cuz they’re adding all types of BS to the original post. Swore we we’re supposed to be comparing verses from the different tracks. Not careers, crowns or whatever the fuck…
RMF…
The guitar riff in Run This Town is taken from here: http://famousblueraincoats.blogspot.com/2009/08/4-levels-of-existence.html
It might have been said already, and it took me a few rewinds to figure out, but on run this town, jay dosnt say “my BANKHEADs looking like millionaire row”, he actually just mispronounces the word banquet. He kind of pronounces it phoneticically as “bank-ette”. He does the same thing a few bars earlier when he says somthing along the lines of “you got a table full of dudes/we got a BANQUET full of broads.”
First of all, I really don’t appreciate how you played Kweli. LMAO!
Seriously, this is a great post, lots of feelings getting hurt on this one. If I must weigh in, I have to agree with Pat, Jay deserves extra credit for having the best rhymes on Kanye’s albums. Now, Never Let Me Down may be a toss up in terms of whether or not Jay’s lines were the best on the album. However, [a pause for intensity] Diamonds….SMH…Diamonds…That track has been rewound time and time again. None can deny the “full scholarship on life” as you so eloquently put it. But I digress.
I see you decided to be the Russian judge on the on Swagger Like Us. Although I must admit that asthma attack rhyme is fierce. All of this is just to delay me saying that based off of the evidence before me in this post, I have to give it to Donda’s boy. Plus, Jay lost his bonus with his flow on Run This Town.
Brilliant write-up! Thank you TSS.
like Ye said : TSS We Major !
A.V.–I respect that homie mainly because you picked your songs you disagreed with and gave in-depth reasons as to why. MUCH RESPECT homie.
The Kid–Wow, I’m about to give it another run through. Good look on the heads up. I still think ‘Ye would win out though lol.
Rawsee–Lol, I wasn’t trying to play Talib, it’s just no one ever quotes his verse when this record is mentioned lol. Maybe I talk to the wrong people though lol.
N.V. & Greums–I repeat what the both of you said lol.
Yeezy is known for his catchy punchlines, but lyrically, I think Jay got Yeezy, imo. If you really look deeper into Jay’s lyrics. Like Run This Town, after the first few listens, I thought Ye had it, but overall, Jay’s verses > Yeezy’s. Not taking anything away from Ye tho.
Kanye’s verses on “Cant Tell Me Nothing” and “Put On” put him on everybody’s top rapper list…you’re being foolish if you say otherwise
Only two verses to be on top rapper list, it’s easy now thus
yo what about Elzhi’s mixtapes, Royce’s verse, Ortiz so
they don’t have two great verses too. oh dey’ve no
blockbuster mainstream crossover ish success
(no shots @ yeezy) i like him. but Emceeing
ain’t just rap sometimes! Flow… delivery…
story telling… emotions… et cetera… etc.
Go Hard (remix) went to Jay, no doubt. It’s 5-5.
not a bad article, good read,,,,but score is 6 -4 favor jigga,,,, bounce is def jigga’s and the go hard remix , dark nights , its like a see better, dark’ nights, im like heath leadger, , ,” , both they swagger like us verses was wack, hated that song<< but i still liked the article, was to bias, just ur opinion, i respect it ,
@JT, True ‘Ya still killed jay on his own shit, no doubt.
as for Exuse me miss again, and Go hard, your definetly reaching.
Esp. exuse me miss. Jays word play on that shit is just uncivilized.
‘Ye ^
Why are some people still trying to argue of who’s better? That’s not the point of this post. The point of this post was to break down each song they’ve been on together and see who got the better of it. This is getting ridiculous.
Also, TSS if you read these I would love be apart of the “crew” (if there’s even a spot on the roster) I have a couple of ideas that I feel should be reached to the masses that follow Hip Hop as much the TSS readers do. So, perhaps if a try-out is possible that’d be great. If not, then that’s cool. We Major.
these two guys know that a little ‘competition’ is good marketing. this is all to get peeps like us bloggin. it’s equivalent to bustin your buddie’s balls and jokin. i here kanye is gettin’ in the studio with malina moye. anybody hear? saw her in atlantic city w-robin thicke and she was bananas talented and got layzie bone on her record. female prince. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojC8Re59TzA
Jay 6
Kanye 4
Solid write-up. Though I’d tend to disagree that Kanye wins any wordsmithing battle (especially against Jay), and I feel that Weezy had the best verses on “Swagga Like Us,” I can still see your points. The breakdown was a pretty cool idea, especially for two artists who’ve appeared on so many songs together.
I’ve always held that Jay jumps back on “Hold You Down” at the end because Kanye got him on that 1st verse.
You Forgot One Kanye Did Bonnie & Clyde Beat Too & I Think Another Jay Track
I feel like J Ivy murdered everybody on Never Let Me Down. I always hate that Jay tried to follow up J Ivy’s verse (the original leaked version ended with J Ivy and it should have).
I say Jay wins 6-4..NAS is better than both of them though to keep it real!!
With the Kanye ghostwriting thing, where’s the evidence? Some dude said until there’s evidence Kanye wrote his lyrics, this is a no contest. What happened to innocent till proven guilty? I want evidence that his stuff is written for him.
Why would someone write lines for Ye? His flow isn’t great. People wouldn’t let him rap back in the day. Why would Rhymefest write the hottest verse on his own song (Brand New) and give it to Yeezy? Think about it.
Jay is in the top 5 ever, but get off his meat.
Ye’ got him on this.
OK. ONE THING. BY UR GRADING, IT SHUDA BEEN A TIE. THERE IS NO WAY THAT KANYE BEAT JAY-Z ON SWAGGA LIKE US. YE HAD NO GOOD LINES IN THAT WHOLE DAMN SONG. JAY STRAIGHT MURDERED IT. I THINK IT WAS A TIE FOR 1st ON THAT TRACK BETWEEN JAY AND T.I. BUT IF I WERE IN CHARGE OF THAT TRACK, I WUDA REPLACED WEEZY WIT ANDRE 3000. NOW THATS REAL SWAGG!
I think everybody has a legit argument, but Jay is clearly a more superior mc than Kanye. Kanye is quite the clever one but his viciousness has not been seen yet. Thank you for acknowledging T.I. though. Kanye is so close behind Jay until we should be on the look out for some subliminal shots from Jay.
With all this thought and comments… it might even seem that this shit matters.
Get THEE f*ck outta here… Jay’s verse on the “Go Hard” Remix is one of the best verses of this decade… damn that – in the history of the english language.
“Even if I overdosed on drugs, ma’f*ckas can’t kill my buzz” What?!! Do you know how many times I had to rewind that joker to catch all the metaphors Jay was droppin?
Wayyyyy better than that autotune bullsh*t ‘ye came up w/….
@ the above where would Jay be without Kanye tweet…well where would Kanye be without Jay. Collaborating with a legend and being on the Roc gave Kanye a nice resume for people to pay attention to him when he was coming up. But either way, collaborating is the key word, Kanye could’ve blown up later without Jay’s help but lets not act like Jay’s career was in criticial condition then in comes Kanye with blueprint beats? If you think that then you could say that about Dre and Eminem, Dre and 50, any rapper that has a close relationship with a producer, it’s stupid. They collaborated, produced a classic, and it seems like thats what they’re doing again 8 years later, baby bro just stepped his rap game up. I disagree with some, like Go Hard but on La-La-La you’re absolutely crazy, Jay killed that, and even counting unofficial remixes is kinda suspect.
@ Barry Washington
Ok so I hadnt heard ‘Jesus Walks’…
…Just listened to it now and I think its over-produced, self-obsessed narcissistic nonsense – masquerading as something deep – as per the rest of his music.
Fucking garbage.
I like the guy for saying that shit about hurricane Katrina though on live tv…
But music-wise..? Iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii dontfuckingthinkso
Ye is a game raiser. He’s bust Jay’s ass regularly if he wanted to.
findanewidol can you say Co-sign!? I felt a way about some of those decisions BUT, damn good article nonetheless.
i gotta disagree with you on this 1. I’m a kanye fan & supports his music but Hov got this 7-3. I KNOW KANYE DID HIS THING ON RUN THIS TOWN BUT THE WAY HOV WENT IN ON THE 2ND VERSE WAS CRAZY POINT BLANK. kanye might have some good verses BUT HE AINT FUCKING WITH HOV.
great article! lovin’ the discussion!