Remember playing Street Fighter as a kid and figuring out the combination that would always beat your friends? For me it was the Zangief high-kick/low kick combo. My friends would get pissed using the age-old argument: “You’re just doing the same cheap move over and over again. I could win if I did that, but I choose not too.”
When I picked up the May issue of XXL, I heard the same argument from a group of New York MCs. The article was called “How Ya Like Them Apples?” and it profiles the disappointing careers of Joell Ortiz, Papoose, Tru Life, Uncle Murda and Saigon. A couple of quotes stuck out to me.
“What’s on the radio? Southern-sounding stuff. Maybe if I get a simple chorus and a skip beat I’ll make the radio.” — Joell Ortiz
“I just made a strip-club song… It’s bullshit, but, unfortunately people are gravitating toward bullshit.” — Saigon
These guys are under the impression that Southern music is too easy for them. Like the songs are so below a “true” rapper that the “real lyricists” “choose” not to make mainstream music. It’s as if their collective failures only verify how “real” and uncompromising a genuine New York MC is. This is the sort of high horse bullshit that I’ve heard for way too long and it’s time to put an end to this mentality.
This is of course ignoring the fact that Papoose spent his last few mixtapes trying to make radio-friendly hits that only missed their mark. And the fact that Saigon had a hit-making producer by his side for a couple of years with no results. (The only MC out of the bunch that I feel got a raw deal was Ortiz, who had undeniable skill but was cut down before getting a chance). The rest of them had their chances, but couldn’t make a song that could move the needle. Sorry, Sai, but at no time in the last 15 years of Hip-Hop would “Pain In My Life” be a viable first single for an album, not even in the “glory days.” Blaming this on the South is only exposing bitchassness.
Just look at the class of 09’ that has surpassed these whiners: “I Love College,” “Brooklyn Girls,” “Day N’ Nite” and basically any song from Drake’s mixtape have gotten substantially more buzz than any of the NYC contingent and not one of these songs sounds like some dumbed down music.
Here’s my challenge: if the dumb music is so easy, then do it. Turn off your brains, almighty lyricists, and make a national phenomenon over simple drums just to prove you can do it. Then I’ll believe you and give you room to bitch and complain about the market.
Until then, you Big Apple MCs just sound like sour grapes.
How Ya Like Them Apples? [XXL]
Special Ed – I Got It Made VLS (1989)
E-A-Ski-Showdown-Retail_CDM-1997
Afu_Ra-Whirlwind_Thru_Cities-VLS-1998
Max B a.k.a Biggaveli- Domain Diego
Eric_Benet-Love_And_Life
Big_Mike & French Montana – Mac Wit Da Cheese
Jah_Cure-The_Universal_Cure
Rick_Ross_-_Port_of_Miami
Poor Righteous Teachers – The New World Order
Bill Withers – Just As I Am
Bill Withers – Still Bill
Poison Clan – Poisonous Mentality
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Annnnnnnnnndddd
The Last Kiss is GARBAGE!
” ‘I Love College,’ ‘Brooklyn Girls,’ ‘Day N’ Nite’ and basically any song from Drake’s mixtape …. not one of these songs sounds like some dumbed down music.”
ahahahahahahaha
Artist have to stop with blaming the South for why they can’t get Radio play in NY. When NY had it on lock; I never heard any southern artist bitch and complain. They just worked harder.
Remember playing Street Fighter as a kid and figuring out the combination that would always beat your friends? For me it was the Zangief high-kick/low kick combo. My friends would get pissed using the age-old argument: “You’re just doing the same cheap move over and over again. I could win if I did that, but I choose not too.”
=================================================
It’s cheap. Just like the majority of the music from the South.
MC’s from New York have to damn near reinvent the wheel to get attention while Southern artists get away with bullshit.
The Last Kiss wan’t as bad as TC keeps saying it is. I think it’s flaw lies in Jada trying to cater to an audience that doesn’t want to hear NY artists. They don’t want to hear substance right now & that’s cool.
The South has an inferiority complex when it comes to Hip-Hop & now that they have the spotlight, cats are feeling themselves, but let’s not get it twisted. New York is the mecca of Hip-Hop. Always has been, always will be.
You guys have fun doing the Stanky Legg.
I never heard any southern artist bitch and complain
====================================
Lies.
ANDDDD LETS NOT FORGET ABOUT “ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM” BY FAT JOE…WHAT EVER HAPPENED TO THAT ALBUM???
I BET THAT SHIT WAS BETTER THAN THE LAST KISS!!! I’LL BET MY FACEBOOK ACCOUNT THAT SHIT!
Anotha Time,
MaLLY
NY = One big ass barrel of crabs always pullin each other down and blaming other people for there lack of coming together to get money like the South hell even the West is about (if they haven’t already) pass them again. I hate to say it but, I’m disappointed in NY to have so many artists with talent. They still manage to blame the South for lack of radio play.
Co-sign my ninja Amp; that Jada wasn’t as bad as people made it out to be, it had some decent tracks. In regard to New York hiphop, I don’t think that it’s the artists fault but the fans don’t care. Most people that I ask say the region that an emcee is from has no bearing on why they like their music, it’s just personal preference (although some are bullshittin’ and only bump that “Dirty South” shit). I have a feeling that Cam’ron is going to be the biggest artist out of NY this year.
Also, I think that the North/Midwest is doing big things right now: We got Detroit poppin’ off, Chicago, Cleveland, Philly, DC, and even Boston.
NYers need to quit bitching and get loose like a goose
@amp naw, fam, some of these NY cats got superiority complexes like theyre owed radio play.
and lets not get it twisted: “arab money” “hi hater” and “pop champagne” are just as ignant as anything the South could ever put out. Yet people excuse these tracks for some reason
and lets not get it twisted: “arab money” “hi hater” and “pop champagne” are just as ignant as anything the South could ever put out. Yet people excuse these tracks for some reason
============================
But look at the spins they got.
Depth is out, dumb is in.
Were stations in Houston, Atlanta, Oakland, Little Rock, etc really playing that much Biggie, Mobb Deep, Wu-Tang, Lords of the Underground, Beatnuts, etc. in the 90′s?
I can’t imagine the 1995 Hot 97 playlist being mirrored in non-northeastern regions.
Here’s my challenge: if the dumb music is so easy, then do it.
————————————————————————————–
Damn, D… I hear what you’re saying, but there IS some truth to what these cats are saying. There isn’t much love given to lyricism, and lyricism, for the most part, IS dumbed down. NY MC’s stuck to that boring ass Mafioso script til it had nothing left to give, but the OTHER cats were ignored b/c the beats became the thing. Producers became king for a good minute.
Groups like Outkast always walked that line between smart and funky with great dexterity, but for most it’s difficult.
It’s a dumb man’s game now….
Soulja Boy is/was actually relevant, Mike Jones (Who?) made a killing, and Jim Jones and Mims were two of the most prominent NY MC’s during the same time period.
I got a problem with that.
Remember that Redman freestyle when Paul Wall was in there with ‘em?
It wasn’t a competition b/w the two, but Paul Wall should’ve evacuated the building…
Hip-Hop had its’ fun, but some of that “fun” came from being “intelligently adventurous”.
Why do we have this impression of what a “lead” single should sound like? That’s not Hip-Hop. That’s stale. As a whole, Hip-Hop’s become too safe, and safe is bland, boring, and generally dumbed down.
Why do we have this impression of what a “lead” single should sound like? That’s not Hip-Hop. That’s stale. As a whole, Hip-Hop’s become too safe, and safe is bland, boring, and generally dumbed down.
==========================
Exactly. It takes balls to make “Pain In My Life” a single cause it’s a record with meaning.
It’s a shame too many cats are so busy dancing to hear it.
And I love me some country rap tunes, but there has to be a balance.
Amp:
When Outkast was getting their career’s off the ground, you never heard them blame NY for not getting airplay in the beginning; hell before they blew up they only person in NY that was giving them a chance was Ralph McDaniels.
The Last Kiss was hot garbage. On the creed, I got it early…and stopped listening early too. There wasn’t any “lyricism” that wasn’t displayed elsewhere. That was the same old Lox over bland beats. I went in fighting for it (Crew will tell you) but I could only walk away cosigning a few songs, namely the Ghost joint & the one where Wayne japped the fuck out. The rest? Pssh, keep it.
Also, I think that the North/Midwest is doing big things right now
=============
I’ve BEEN saying it was the Midwest’s turn…for about four years now. Take that as a slight or as me holding out hope. But I’m hoping they do make a run of prominence.
The South has an inferiority complex when it comes to Hip-Hop & now that they have the spotlight, cats are feeling themselves, but let’s not get it twisted. New York is the mecca of Hip-Hop. Always has been, always will be.
==============
You keep fighting for the holy land homey lol. We’ll stay over here making & enjoying good music.
I don’t even think it’s a blatant dislike or “hate” people have for lyrics…I bet money if you put in some shit that is lyrical to somebody who doesn’t know what someone is talking in “real hip hop” song they will prolly say what the fuck is that or what is he talking about…
Funny thing is I never liked east coast rap because I thought it was depressing, but now when I listen I know that it was because I aint understand the slang, the message etc. Maybe the so called listeners just dont wanna hear that…
When I was a youngn’ coming up in substitue for east coast I had my 2pac’s, my Bone Thugs, My Twista, my Do or Die…and them cats had dope music…but hold up them cats still had lyrics….I think they are upset because they (some Ny rappers with skill) put time and effort into music and it gets embraced less than something considered “simple” or “dumbed down”…
However if we look at Uncle Murder, Styles (who I like alot..pause), Jada, Papoose, Tru Life, Saigon, Joell (who i like alot pause) make the same shit mostly too now….A majority of their songs have to do with Cooper Projects, Bainsbridge, Marcy, Yonkers and its all the same just has a different flow and voice….COKE, GUNS, MURDER, BITCHES, WHIPS, BEING BROKE ETC.
Now I will say it seems like one side makes music about shit that is “making people stupid” when another side is making music that is “killing people” and black people especially. I mean whats the different if I talk about popping bottles every song as opposed to killing a person every song…except I just decide to use larger vocabulary, and use more cadence combination…If you ask me…both sides aren’t really good anymore or should only be taken in increments.
Anotha Time,
MaLLY
When Outkast was getting their career’s off the ground, you never heard them blame NY for not getting airplay in the beginning
===============================
True & I didn’t mean to call you a liar lol. I just go hard for the hometeam (Ayo!).
But the South & the West always blamed New York for not playing their records, videos, etc. & there was truth in it. But I feel the same thing is happening now with the South, but the content coming out of the South is no where near as diverse as what was coming out of New York @ it’s prime.
excuse me: as a youngn’ i never liked east coast rap*
The South has an inferiority complex when it comes to Hip-Hop & now that they have the spotlight, cats are feeling themselves, but let’s not get it twisted. New York is the mecca of Hip-Hop. Always has been, always will be.
==============
You keep fighting for the holy land homey lol. We’ll stay over here making & enjoying good music.
————————————————————
If I don’t, who will? I gotta wave the flag lol.
You can’t tell me Gucci Mane, one of the hottest cats in the South, is touching any of the MC’s Dub D. mentioned.
It’s a slow, systematic dumbing down of the music.
Aside from Killer Mike & a few others, there’s nothing profoundly inspirational or thought provoking coming out of the South.
How about that DJ Neil Armstrong- Sweeet Pt. 2?
[www.zshare.net]
You’re welcome! You’re all welcome! © Frank White
hold up, yall act like NY bee dropping unheard classics that just fell under the radar or something. When was the last 4-4.5 cig album out of new york? Saigon and Statik? Kiss? Fab? Hell even Joe Budden? Its not like in 98 when Mos Def and co. were dropping classics that only a handful of cats were hearing. What was the last truly amazing NY mixtape? C’mon, show me the MUSIC that proves these cats deserve shine.
Last time I checked, Jeezy, Killa Mike, Luda and T.I. were southern and their albums were 4s.
And we’ll see what their excuse is when Mickey Factz blows up.
Aside from Killer Mike & a few others, there’s nothing profoundly inspirational or thought provoking coming out of the South.
===============
Inspiring to who?
If you can say to me that their isn’t something thoughtful in something as “radio-friendly” as TI’s “Dead & Gone,” I’d have to question your hearing. And to show you the different levels it touches, just this week I had…
My daughter (10), her cousin (7) and an old white man (60+) all ask me for it the song.
Think about that. Now, assuming they all wanted it for different reasons but they all genuinely wanted it, were asking me more about what he meant or telling me what it meant to them. If you listen to music to inspire thought & entertain, that’s winning.
You can’t tell me Gucci Mane, one of the hottest cats in the South, is touching any of the MC’s Dub D. mentioned.
===================
Nope, I can’t say he’s touching them lyrically. Duh, nobody’s speaking on the Gucci’s b/c for every “Bricks,” a somewhat senseless hit, there’s it’s counterpart in NYC (“Hi Haters” perhaps?) There’s always been “senseless” music.
But if you’re arguing lyrical ability, peep
Wale, Curren$y, and Señor Kaos
Word Play Remix
Produced By 9th Wonder
[www.zshare.net]
All below the Mason-Dixon. Just released yesterday. And they even say it in the track – “who think the south don’t got wordplay”
But I feel the same thing is happening now with the South, but the content coming out of the South is no where near as diverse as what was coming out of New York @ it’s prime.
===========
Enh…diff place & time in music. We will not be getting back to the days of Afrocentricity, lyrics, and gangsterism all sharing the Rap City countdown lol. But that doesn’t mean that they’re not taking place ALL over the country…just not on the airwaves.
you musta missed what i said earlier..Fat Joe’s JOSE album, Elephant in The Room, Remy Ma’s album…jk
But naw the only good MIXTAPE that came hard was fucking Mood Muzik 2 & 3….EVERYTHING else was corny for the most part…I think where the confusion comes in is: we know the east has the talent to kill shit but when given the opportunity…they make wack albums…Jada, Fab, Lloyd Bank when he was good, 50 cent etc.
Last time I checked, Jeezy, Killa Mike, Luda and T.I. were southern and their albums were 4s
===============================
The South has a good year & now they run the rap game?
Cmon, B.
And Untitled, The Death Of Adam & The Renaissance’ came out last year too.
There are more “Bricks” then “Dead & Gone”s coming out of the South. Let’s be real.
Untitled, The Death Of Adam & The Renaissance
———————————————————————
All of these albums are NY at its’ historic best. Lyrical, yet experimental. More of the NY MC’s should take note…
and for real, for real, I liked the album, but Luda had a pretty formulaic album, but he wasn’t taken to task for it like Jada’s been.
and for real, for real, I liked the album, but Luda had a pretty formulaic album, but he wasn’t taken to task for it like Jada’s been.
=================================
Like I said before, New York MC’s have to reinvent the wheel to get love while Southern artists can spit elementary bars with worn concepts & get standing ovations.
C’mon, show me the MUSIC that proves these cats deserve shine.
===============================================
Still waiting. People keep saying “”this guy is dope…that guy is dope” but where’s the records that are like “this should have been on the radio.”
Little Brother “Good Clothes” should have been on the radio. “Scared of Monsters” “Nike Boots.” What about something from NY?
lol, keep the backpack holmes. we coming w/TSS chewsticks soon.
^lmao
David D….. SERIOUS PROPS FOR THIS ONE!!!!
the “NYC rappers rule Hip Hop” mentality has come around to bite them in the ass…
When XXL does these “watch out for the new freshman class” covers, any NY artist has either flopped or disappeared (expect for Julez 2 years ago, I think)…. last year’s cover, out of the 10 artist that were on there, only 3 of them was from NY (Corey Gunz, Hamilton & Mickey Factz) and Hamilton is the only one that is still maintaining a tangible buzz (and that’s because he releases 50 mixtapes in 2 weeks and his Rhymefest “beef/saga”)… this just tells me that the world is ready to hear new and refreshing sounds from across the country….
it seems like rappers and fans that are trapped in the New York State of Mind and need to think outside the box….
some kid the other day said, Fab>>>Andre 300… i wanted to say: “where the hell were you when ‘Aquemini’ came out? In diapers???”… smh…
Isnt it funny that most New Yorkers ride that same high horse as their rappers.
The south puts out bullshit? Yeah cuz we all know Curren$y, Z-Ro, Trae, Killer Mike, Scarface, Rich Boy, B.O.B, T.I., Young Dro, and Wayne* make bullshit music.
Pffffffffffffffffffffttt
*when weezy is on his shit, HE’S ON HIS SHIT
Little Brother “Good Clothes” should have been on the radio. “Scared of Monsters” “Nike Boots.” What about something from NY?
=================================
So you’re gonna tell me there’s no good music coming out of New York, huh?
Aight b.
It hasn’t been mentioned, but internal beef has decimated entire movements in NY. Hard to get any national momentum going like that.
@Amp…I’m not telling you anything, homie. I’m asking for examples which I’m yet to see.
I wonder how many “Live Your Life”-ish tracks Saigon turned down? As a matter of fact Just Blaze has given what must be an albums worth of amazing beats to TI since Sai was signed to Ft Knox
Amp is right, a lot of East Coast albums dropped last year that were fucking ill but some people would tell you otherwise. Let’s face it, the majority of mixtapes that drop regardless of the region are fucking TRASH; the game ain’t been the same since Drama was raided by the Feds. Also, I’m sorry but those aforementioned 4/4.5 cig albums from those South cats weren’t that great.
@ Gotty: I hear you my ninja, the Midwest got next along with California. They’re both due for a resurgence
that reminds me..eople talk bout NY rapperss can hold their own on the battle tip, but the last good “diss” song I heard was “what up whats happenin” by T.I….and NY has had far more befs than the south
, a lot of East Coast albums dropped last year that were fucking ill
=================
name them
Most folks sayin the South is on top are Northerners. Down here we dont care bout who’s runnin shit, we just get our grind on.
At any given time – past or present – I can go to NY and hear artists from other regions. Other than say, Jay-Z, I can’t think of many more NY MC’s that get that kinda play outside the tri-state region.
@ Amp: The reason why South artists can get away with sub-par rhymes is that most people don’t check for lyrics anymore. Not to say that fans are stupid (although some are) but some would rather hear a simplistic track as opposed to one that is lyrically dense. Also, anybody who thinks NY isn’t putting out good music needs to scour the underground a tad more.
@ old.sole.
“fucking ill” is entirely subjective.
88 Keys and Q-Tip’s albums were two of the top albums from last year. I’m not sure if you agree, but that’s my point.
@ Old Sole: That’s why the South is on top, the fans from that region support their artists to the fullest, so even if their music is trash it still sells.
@ Flea
Lil’ Jon made (I assume) lots of money off of “non-lyrical” hip-hop. Soulja Boy capitalized off of it, Young Joc made loot off of it, and there have been imitators upon imitators. Intelligence and lyricism aren’t confined to any region, but in a copycat industry filled with “Lil”‘ this’, and “Young” that’s, I don’t know how folks are denying the dumbing down has occured..
New York music isn’t New York music cause artists are too busy trying to cater to the South.
Saigon put out two great singles that got deaded cause no one wants to hear anything but bullshit.
The South values style over substance & in trying to adapt, New York has lost it’s identity.
@ OED: That’s my point as well, plus most of the East Coast shit that I felt was dope wasn’t mainstream so there is no point in mentioning it.
Good post David.
Also why do people think New York’s best music was from grimy hood artists. Not every good emcee from NY made it big by doing grimy, hood music. NY was buzzin’ before Wu Tang came out in 93.
Bottom line, make good music that’s catchy and can hit people. It’s been done so many times. Ask Jay, NaS, Biggie, Common, (I’m going beyond coasts now) UGK, Outkast, Ghostface, (“Back Like that” was monster) Scarface, 2 Pac Rakim, Mobb Deep and a host of other emcees. Each of them are well respected lyricists who are able to make jams on the radio. Big Daddy Kane (One of the most referenced emcees by hip-hop purists) danced and did songs for women like “Smooth Operator” and is still held as one of the greatest rappers of all time. You either can make a hit or don’t.
There have been some good music coming out of NY; there are many reasons why NY MC’s are not getting played on NY radio. Radio politics, the crab in the barrel mentality, limited subjects of songs, the fact that there are too many MC’s and not enough fans especially in NY.
The lyrical dumbing down created the “swagger mc”. Bravado has always been a part of hip-hop, but it was backed with some substance.
I have no problem with any type of rapper [ ll ], but the scales are imbalanced.
I understand there is pressure to post new blogs and keep ish popping but come on. You know damn well substance is getting shut out of the music because the music is our culture and the powers that be want our culture to be as ignorant as possible. This ain’t t back when when LA had KDAY and NY had BLS and Kiss. This is some old FCC deregulated, Clear Channel owns every station and every city sounds the same ish. There are artists from every region with substance and also artists fron every region with ignorance. What’s missing are people who love and are in tune with the culture in positions of power. This is OUR ish{ ALL hip hoppers regardless of color, location, etc} but when it comes time for heads that we co-sign to blow up, the desicion goes out of our hands. And that’s where we lose.
can anyone post some dope doom shots or loosies?
@ OED: NY ain’t the only place that produces music with high lyrical content; Cali and the Midwest got tons of supa-lyrical artists, even the South too (Little Brother, Jay Electronica). What one deems to be dope lyrics might be wack to the next man, which why were debating this shit in the first place.
by the way, is there anybody from any region who doesn’t get embarrassed when “Do the Ricky Bobby” comes on t.v?.
Amp: I didn’t take it personally. I am born and raised in NY; but we have to keep it 100. Complaining about the South’s success makes NY look weak. Of course there were those that were mad when NY dominated the Radio. But the majority of Southern acts just continued to work on their craft.
The reason why South artists can get away with sub-par rhymes is that most people don’t check for lyrics anymore.
=============
Dog, I respect you but you’re just grasping for straws.
@ Flea
I’ve alluded to that several times. Lyrics aren’t “regional”. You name a region, I’ll give you a good representative lyrically.
Wasn’t arguing w/you…. Was more or less piggybacking [ ll ] your comment (#43)…
Joell Ortiz, Papoose, Tru Life, Uncle Murda and Saigon
=================================
Each of them put out enough good music to land them major record deals. Each of them are talented & have grass roots followings.
You tell ME why they no longer have deals. Maybe if they made some dance records & started snapping their fingers, they’d still be signed.
can anyone post some dope doom shots or loosies?
===========
Man lol…you’ll have them fools send text msgs to the RIAA & waking me up in the morning lol.
Y’ALL can do that in here, but there shall never be any DOOM shots lol. I can name off companies & artists who’ll you’ll never see Shots from. If we, you’ll come here & they’ll be done 4Chan’ed our asses lol.
nigs need to quit putting the cape on for ny…if you cant see that everything they have been putting out is subpar bullshit then your too biased for your opinion to actually count.
stop bitching and get back to work…shit is sickening.
ny deserves to be all fucked up right now…i could find you posts from 2002-03 at dubcnn when i was saying “if cats dont get on the same page ny rap is over…too much divide and conquer goin on” i think fifs emergance played a big part in the death of ny hip hop but fifs relevance is at an all time low right now so theres no excuse besides lack of direction and poor work ethic.
right cuz I’ve never heard “Death of Adam” or I wasn’t telling people how dope “Untitled’ was.
Cuz we all saw people go out in droves to buy killer mike’s last album
Cuz we all saw Scarface’s “Made’ gettin love all over MTV n BET
Cuz we all know Max B is a profound lyricist
Cu we all know Maino has never had a hit before
yea your right the South is full of shit and I’m another country ass bamma
Joell Ortiz, Papoose, Tru Life, Uncle Murda and Saigon. All doper than Asher Roth by far..why am I watching him every 2 seconds right now on MTV?
most people don’t check for lyrics anymore.
=============
Dog, I respect you but you’re just grasping for straws.
^ G, Hip-Hop aficionado that you are, you don’t represent the masses. No dis, but you check for like Chino XL’s lyrics like I do.
Unless the lyrical come packaged in an easily digestible format, folks – for the most part – ain’t checking for ‘em.
ohextramoney does make an excellent point; we all should be embarassed by the rickey bobby. lol
Seriously, Clear Channel has a Monopoly on radio and they are trying to force feed us on what they think hip hop is; which is what ever will get the advertising dollars
nigs need to quit putting the cape on for ny…if you cant see that everything they have been putting out is subpar bullshit then your too biased for your opinion to actually count.
==================================
All the music coming out of New York is subpar bullshit?
And I’m biased?
Riiight..
He’s not making snap music. He’s not dancing either. He’s a “lyricist” who’s spits over beats. Why is he getting a huge push like this{from nothing to mixtape to album actually dropping in 10 months} while other “lyricists” are on the back burner dying slow???
wait…THIS shoulda been on the radio?
[www.youtube.com]
Hip Hoppers need to be in control of Hip Hop. I’m so tired of hearing Jimmy Iovine, Steve Rifkind, L.A Reid and all these other executive douchebags names. Do they really have the chops to be repping this culture?
You NY dude KILL me! First of most NY artist don’t make good music PERIOD! You got folk like NaS who can’t even pick a decent beat! There are a hand full of artist who make good music, but honestly I’m not checking for too many NY rappers. I was around for the East Coast heyday, and I will tell you the artist waving the NY flag aren’t making music nowhere on that level! Not only that, they’ve had PLENTY of chances! Those dudes got dropped or keep getting pushed back because they suck! Lets just be real!
@Gotty: Grasping for straws??? Nah my ninja, I’m giving my viewpoint. There’s plenty of dope cats in the South, don’t get it twisted, but the ones that I see getting major play are dudes who I feel aren’t that good lyrically. Therefore, I conjectured that cats must not appreciate lyrics if they’re feeling these dudes.
Whoever thinks there isn’t ANY good music coming out of NYC is missing out and i’ll just leave it at that…
It’s amazing the broad strokes that some people paint in.
Lables aren’t pushing anything that isn’t easily classified as either Southern or Hipster. Period.
“wait…THIS shoulda been on the radio?”
Nah, but Saigon’s single’s should’ve. And Pap has material much better then that song you chose & you know it.
^Pap does. I agree. I was a fan. But listen to every single he tried to make. Garbo. Not a single song in his catalogue is radio-ready. Yea, he could spit, but you gotta make some sort of single to get noticed and Pap didn’t know how to make songs. YOu don’t have to Stanky Legg, but you can’t expect “D’Evils” to make it on the radio either
The ratio of good/bad is more bad. There isn’t anything new or exciting about NY rappers. Jada is spitting the same shit he was in the late 90′s! Pap, Maino, and Uncle Murder are basically the same rappers! While southern artist may not as a whole spit in-depth content, neither do NY artist! For every Gucci Mane and New Yorker brings up, I could give you a NY rapper who is as non-lyrical! Plus, NY’ers don’t but music. I remember Biggie saying as much in a interview back then!
Nah, but Saigon’s single’s should’ve. ..
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yea cuz its the South’s fault Atlantic killed his budget…
LABELS AREN’T pushing anything that isn’t easily classified as either Southern or Hipster. Period.
^
And when you say Labels who do you really mean??? My point exactly. If we push for someone it’s whatever. When the label pushes for someone they emerge { Hey again Asher}. I thought this was music from the streets.
I’m waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too heavily medicated to way in, but I’d like to say….Get off NY’s dick. Hip-Hop in general sucks hippo balls right now. Can’t we all just get along and agree that everybody outside of NY is jealous and needs a hug?
It’s ok. I’d be mad too if I was from out there. lol..
Also: Gotty said:”I can name off companies & artists who’ll you’ll never see Shots from. If we, you’ll come here & they’ll be done 4Chan’ed our asses lol.”
Word. Just for good measure, name em. lol.
And just for the record i’m not an Asher Roth hater. I listened to his album and even turned some of my peoples on to him. I’m just saying..
Even if labels don’t push artist, we as fan can still go to the damn store and buy good music! At this point I refuse to blame a label, when we as TSS followers have the power to change the situation. Joe Budden has plenty of “internet fans”, but when it come release date time people don’t put there money where there mouth is!
Yea, he could spit, but you gotta make some sort of single to get noticed and Pap didn’t know how to make songs.
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That’s what artist development is for. Those songs should’ve never made it out of the studio. There are other circumstances that messed Pap up (Label, Management, etc.), but the talent is there. Label’s don’t develop artists anymore & with the money they spent to sign Pap, you’d think they would’ve tried to nurture him as an artist to see a return.
Awesome article, and about time.
“Until then, you Big Apple MCs just sound like sour grapes.” BANG ON, in a nutshell.
the only new york music i listened to in the last year was ‘Prodigy: Product of the Eighties’. That was progressive, hard, intense & pain-filled etc, all the things that make great art.
Dont waste your time listening to guys who never got over their success in the mid-nineties and their fans who never got over that period either.
Prodigy keeps it moving though, dude is not afraid to break barriers and rock like a true artist.
I dont understand how anyone listens to anything other than Gucci Mane. He is on top of the world right now. If you think he’s not ‘lyrical’ you need to go to starbucks and listen to norah jones or something.
Gucci is now what Biggie was in 93. ie: he is a) telling the truth b) incredibly fucking talented c) light years ahead of everyone in the game. (& d, blowing every single other rapper out of the game…)
The funny thing is: I’d already been doing hip hop for ten years when Notorious Big got his unsigned hype in the Source, I go back before THAT period. When the ‘Flava in yr Ear’ remix video came out w/B.I.G on it, it was clear there was a new sherrif in town. Just crystal clear. The force, the charisma, the skill, originality, natural talent, hard truth, heart-mind-body-soul backing every word, Gucci Mane raps about jewerly 24/7, he raps about strip clubs 24/7, raps about selling cocaine (and lots of it) twenty-four-seven-three-sixty-five.
And its reality rap.
Its EXACTLY where the world is at right now.
He’s creative, original, fearless, authentic, funny as FUCK, and his story is FUCKING AMAZING.
All the rap nerds who think his kind of rap is stupid are stupid to me. How is someone who came from that backround, who created this fucking empire out of NOTHING… who has jimi hendrix status/level/creativity & work ethic… STUPID? Wha..? You need to get your nose out of your book, and get punched in the face right now.
I realise the internet rap-critic community is primarily made up of passive aggressive nerds who live in their moms house & use her internet connection to tell the world what REAL hip hop is, who is intelligent and whose stupid… but get out on your own, put twenty years into rap music like me, get around the gangs, the drugs, get out in the real world and make some mistakes, and you’re gonna realise its not about battle-rap-93-era-clever-guy-say-a-lot-but-do-nothing-non-sensical-but-call-yourself-intelligent-NERD rap.
You can talk about how lyrical your lyrics are as much as you want, what matters is whose telling the truth, whose real.
Theres no better rap out there right now than Gucci Mane La Fleur, and there is a lot of good rap out there right now.
Im never gonna stop listening to hip hop, but maybe you should quit now?
F.
Can’t we all just get along and agree that everybody outside of NY is jealous and needs a hug?
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I didn’t say this, but I wanted to.
Thanks Contra lol.
Even if labels don’t push artist, we as fan can still go to the damn store and buy good music
^
Not if it doesn’t make it to the masses ears. There ain’t enough Joe Budden internet soldiers for him to gold or platinum. Trust me their are more hip hop fans than you think who don’t even know Mood or Padded exist! Ish is that real/sad in the mainstream.Besides people like us TSS followers are to internet saavy to pay for music and you know that.
Gucci is now what Biggie was in 93. ie: he is a) telling the truth b) incredibly fucking talented c) light years ahead of everyone in the game. (& d, blowing every single other rapper out of the game…)
==============================
See what I mean. Shits disgusting b.
*Disclaimer* The Pro-Gucci Mane views expressed by Fred Anker are not shared by David D.
Gucci is now what Biggie was in 93
^
Nah, your bugging. And I support Gucci. But you’re bugging. You fanboy idol worship is compromising some real ish you touched on.
You really don’t get why Asher Roth got an album so quick? Marketability. How many “true hip-hop fans” buy albums in comparison to frat boys? I agree he’s not doper than Joell, Sai, Murda, or Papoose on a lyrical level, but he’s extremely marketable. White parents in the burbs would much rather get their kids an album by someone named Asher Roth than Uncle Murda. And in the end, this is a business and we’re in a recession. You think they’re not gonna jump at the chance to make bank for once?
and going back before the biggie era in hip hop is not that hard, or impressive.
@ Shail : true indeed
I was ridin for the south…but that gucci comment killed my soul
@Fred Anker -AND, if you didn’t get up on Biggie until the Flava remix video you were late…MAD late
Gucci Mane is like Biggie??
You can be a Gucci fan but jesus that is just wrong, the 2 thing they have in common are
1. both are black
2. both are ugly
2b. they may have noth slept with Mya
lol
@OhExtra
I still go buy cd’s from artist that I like, ie UGK. If we want our fav artist to be successful, we can’t be so savvy that we won’t go drop 11.99 on a disc.
Haha. Nah man.
He represents Freedom and a fist in the face of authority.
Tell me whats better than that right now.
(disclaimer: the opinions expressed in these comments are obviously i.m.o and may or may not be believed by the author at the time of writing. they may also have been written with the sole purpose of provoking internet-rap-nerd ire, &/or allieviating boredom / drinking too much coffee. The author accepts no responsibility for feelings provoked by said comments at any time. Comments may also contain bold-faced lies. Consume at your own risk. They may also be true &/or 100% correct)
In addition:
Gucci Mane himself may not actually agree with me. I don’t however give a fuck. Fuck that guy.
F.
I’m from NY and listen to gucci, boosie, pimp c, slim thug, devin the dude, etc… but I prefer hearing somebody who really can spit like joell ortiz, personally I think tru life is really boring, pap don’t rap as nice as he used to on his first 4 or 5 tapes, and uncle murda comes with some heat once in a while but overall is boring… Max B. and Stack Bundles were the future of NY but due to death and possible life in prison that has been derailed… I think artists like Curren$y and Clipse who are obviously somewhat influenced by NY rappers but give there own styles and flavor from there region are where we can meet in the middle pause…
*hands in late pass*
Sorry, I was too busy trying to get Folger’s to sign me for a marketing deal for all the coffee I drink.
I think what’s going on is that nobody gives a shit. Be real, we’re almost at 100 comments, and really, once it’s over and we close this browser, we’re gonna go back to what we listen to, whether it’s Gucci Mane or B.I.G. (and for the record, you should never, AND THE BROCK MEANS NEVER, compare Biggie to Gucci. That’s a home cooked meal to McDonald’s. One is great, the other is bullshit. It’s still food in the end. It’s just which one you want to digest daily.) or Cube or Asher.
Do you care enough about NY? Hell, do people that live in NY care about NY? So why do the NY rappers get their prissy panties in a bunch because the South had 1 good fucking year? It’s all opinions, not facts.
Here’s my two cents; Stop worrying about the next man. This is why Hip-Hop is in the position it’s in now. “He got the girl I wanted. He got the chain I wanted. He got the beats I wanted.” Blah, blah fucking blah. Work hard at your craft. This is why people started giving a shit about who did what numbers, who’s fucking who, who’s beefing with who, because we don’t have anything of SUBSTANCE to concentrate on. Why? Can you sit down for a minute, NY rappers, and just work out some shit for yourself?
Get back on your grind. Fuck the regional shit. I’m from VA, all day. I rep my artists, and I will blast them if they put out some bullshit. But I got into this game from the West. Dr. Dre put me on to hip-hop, and I’ve been loving it ever since. And that’s what we need to do, stop thinking regional and think about Hip-Hop as a whole. Support the good artist and blast the wack ones. Get this Ron Brows/Swag Surfing/Stanky Legg/dumb shit out of here, and represent for the real artist!
I’m tired of NY people always complaining about no NY love. I say this:
FUCK NEW YORK RAPPERS. THEY FUCKING SUCK RIGHT NOW.
If you can’t get your shit together, fuck you. Same goes for the South, Mid West and the West. Fuck you if you think that the real fans are going to keep up with this bullshit.
*sips coffee*
And if you disagree, let me know, we can discuss this even further. Until then, FUCK RAPPERS. Non music making motherfuckers.
Fred’s trippin’ lol!
My immediate reaction to this post was anger, like I had to defend the town, but after some time to think (& a blunt or two), David makes a good point. I don’t completely agree, cause I believe there are other factors @ work, but to say there’s no validity to this post would be some biased shit on my part.
Good shit, Dub D.
The weird thing is that I actually want West Coast shit to make a comeback. NY will always be NY whether popular or not. Raw lyrics over boombap drums and dusty samples will ALAWAYS have a place in this cold heart. And the South will either bring out some country fried goodness or some simpleton shit. But that West Coast G shit came and went way too quickly.
The weird thing is that I actually want West Coast shit to make a comeback
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Quietly, so do I lol.
The game needs balance & I just feel that for numerous reasons, the scales are being tipped towards the South.
Red and Blue better make green…cotdamnit
@ David D. The dumb music IS easy. It wasn’t too long ago that 50 “turned off his brains” and became a “national phenomenon” or actually an international phenomenon. But whatever, you are the one that sound like sour grapes my man. And for the record Staten Island came out w/ the best record of the year so far.
and Gotty couldn’t understand it
@Amp
But where was the outcry when the scales were tipped to the East? No one asked for balance then, and when they did it was disregard it. IMO its a sad state when you waiting on OB4CL to save the coast in a since! Rae still rapping the same as when I was a Junior in high school! IMO I want complete albums and not a decent single here and there……
@Amp
But where was the outcry when the scales were tipped to the East? No one asked for balance then, and when they did it was disregard it.
=================================
Fam, I listen to it all & I admit, the New York bias was some bullshit. But it was different back then. There was a wider range of artistic expression in the music. Nowadays everything seems to be confined to the same ol’ same ol’. Cats like Curren$y, Drake & B.O.B. bring a freshness to the game & for various reasons, the East Coast isn’t really being represented. The artists have to take some accountability for the music but there are other factors at play here.
“Here’s my challenge: if the dumb music is so easy, then do it. Turn off your brains, almighty lyricists, and make a national phenomenon over simple drums just to prove you can do it”
I think you’re a little too smart to really believe that statement. Without industry backing (Roth and Em) or gimmicks (dances and Auto-tune) it’s damn near impossible to “make a national phenomenon.” Anybody who listens to enough rap will tell you that theres plenty of radio friendly tunes on otherwise hardcore albums. AZ has at least three in every album. Ortiz had one on The Brick. A lyricist can’t help being a lyricist.
One thing does bother me though. I can understand that for the sake of the dollar record labels will try to push whatever they can into pop music to expand their fanbase. It’s business, it sucks, but I understand. What I don’t understand is that while brainwashing kids and regular music listeners (people who dont follow or obsess over it like us), they also managed to create such a negative attitude towards creativity, originality and overall quality music. I never thought I’s see the day when one producer can sell basically the same beat to different artists and have them become hits. The shit really boggles my mind. They keep Xeroxing the same shit and people just eat it up like its the new freshness.
What I don’t understand is that while brainwashing kids and regular music listeners (people who dont follow or obsess over it like us), they also managed to create such a negative attitude towards creativity, originality and overall quality music. I never thought I’s see the day when one producer can sell basically the same beat to different artists and have them become hits. The shit really boggles my mind. They keep Xeroxing the same shit and people just eat it up like its the new freshness.
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Preach!
@ Amp
I hear you. I just want NY rappers to step up and make good music again. Whether mainstream or underground, just make good hip hop….
“There was a wider range of artistic expression in the music.”
^^^^You hit that shit right on the head. Part of the reason NY ran shit was because Digables had they own tip. Onyx had theirs. Wu was on they own planet. Craig Mack didn’t sound like Keith Murray. Gang Starr didn’t sound like Pete & CL. Mobb Deep had one lane, Tribe had another. Boot Camp had they own sound, so did Brand Nubian.
And make no mistake. As a person who spent his entire teenagehood in NY in the 90′s I can tell you that we welcomed to Outkasts and the Goodie Mobs and the Geto Boyss and the Death Rows with open arms. Don’t believe any of the bullshit you read about NYers refusing to listen to out of town music. Shit, I remember being in the barbershop when “Hit ‘Em Up” came out and cats had that shit on repeat. Yea we loved Biggie, but we love Hip-Hop even more. I never saw a serious anti-West bias in NY. Nobody played any less Cali music just because Pac and BIG were beefing. Trust me.
Co-sign everything Tres said.
god bless you brock.
Tres, on point statements.
Look, the point in this article is missed completely. Its entirely the fans fault that southern music is on top. If thats what people want to buy then so be it. Eat it up. It is simpler music though. No knock, it has its place (store shelves, clubs, everywhere that could make some money). But hip hop, real hip hop, aint about making money, its about making someone rewind your verse cuz “damn, what he just say”. I can honestly say I havent listened to a new single in years and have ever had a “holy shit” moment like I used to when I would hear Mega drop a new verse or hear a new Pun verse the first time. These artists just arent what they used to be, its a fact we have to face, but it doesnt mean we cant appreciate the music. Its a business now but lets appreciate the people who still treat it as ART. because that is what hip hop really is.
I’m from the south, lived on the west, love the east… The problem is that at the beginning of this “southern insurgency,” what really began to take hold was that the people that created the music did not CONTROL the music and how it was put out. The people in control (labels, radio execs, etc.) are in control of what you listen to on the radio. Soulja Boy hasn’t told anybody at Hot 97 to play “kiss me through the phone” 15 times per hour. People place the blame on the South for the demise of hip hop for what? Gucci Mane is Jimmy Iovine now? He controls what songs the radio plays in your city? That’s a garbage argument to make, when the South, just like every other city, state, borough, or whatever, has different types of artists offering different types of music.
I don’t agree with Tres that there was a wider range of music available… Maybe there was a wider range of music available ON THE RADIO, but certainly not overall. The landscape of hip hop has always been broad, but now there is a helluva lot more money in it, so those 2 corporations that control every radio station in the country now have the ability to force feed us everything. I remember hearing “Nas Is Coming” on the radio in Houston! You won’t hear that now, just like you wouldn’t have heard a Nas song being used as the music to a movie trailer back in ’95 either… When it comes to the RADIO, it’s all about the money, which is why the new single from “X – Rapper” will ALWAYS sound like the last you just heard. Stop blaming the South for the ignorance and complacency you’re hearing. Turn off the friggin radio, stop listening to singles and listen to the album. The radio ain’t hip hop ya’ll.
South is a different mentality. North is a different mentality. East is a different mentality. West is a different mentality.
South West: Hear & Move (Feel). North East: Listen & See (Imagine).
Just a summary.
Midwest is like the best of all that.
Detroit been gettin’ Illy wit it the past few days……Elzhi, Royce, Slim, Obie.
I had to go sit in the corner with a dunce cap on for sleeping on Elzhi so long.
I still go buy cd’s from artist that I like, ie UGK. If we want our fav artist to be successful, we can’t be so savvy that we won’t go drop 11.99 on a disc.
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You really don’t get why Asher Roth got an album so quick? Marketability. How many “true hip-hop fans” buy albums in comparison to frat boys?
==============
Exactly, if you & your troops to put the dollars where you demands are, labels won’t take notice. Believe that. If you see my noticeably cosigning an artist, I go buy it. Sure I’ve had the leaked version forever, but I still go buy it.
And you need to spend that w/a Best Buy or something, not a bootlegger.
Amp makes a good point:HiHater and Pop Champagne are ignorant club records that succeeded, thats the type of record these NY guys should bew doin IF they want the pot o’ gold otherwise they should be thankful they have been eatin for the last 5 years with no job.
As for David D, sour grapes is allowed, who gives a f8ck really?
I love commenting two months after the fact, But Blackout 2 both proves that NYC hip hop isnt dead and shows how big the problem is (that they are relying on seasoned vets and have no new voices.)