“As He Goes, Therefore I Go…”
GENERAL By Gotty™ on December 3, 2008 at 10:18 am
It’s quite lazy of me to block out this whole article. However, I read it as a whole, not as bits & pieces, and I think that’s a key to understanding his points.
Rapper Kanye West is turning his back on the genre that made him famous – because hip-hop is becoming too much of a “cliche” for the star…West claims his new music has created a new genre, labeling it “pop art”, and is adamant that he will not go back to his previous style because he wants to cement his place in musical history.
He says, “This is not hip-hop music. Taking a sample, looping it and doing all that ‘throw your hands up in the sky’ thing has become such a cliche. Hip-hop is over for me. I sing, not rap, on this album. I now want to be grouped among those musicians you see in those old black-and-white photos – the Rolling Stones, Jimi Hendrix, the Beatles. And I’m not going to get there by doing just another rap album full of samples.
“I’ve had to create a whole new musical genre to describe what I’m doing now and I’m calling it ‘pop-art’ – which is not to be confused with the visual art movement.”
You know, he just might have a case here.
If you’re over the age of 15, Hip-Hop is completely predictable, isn’t it? For a kid, there’s a level of rebelliousness & unexpectedness there that still keeps Hip-Hop new to them. But once you’ve heard it once, you’ve heard all Hip-Hop has to offer in terms of lyrics & focus of it’s content. You know at the end of the day, regardless of how many capers the rapper raps, he’s going home to a quaint, modestly furnished apartment that advance checks have afforded him. That “firsthand account”…well, we’re finding it harder to accept in good faith. At the end of the day, we want some semblance of art when we put that CD into the player. Very few are taking chances with their music…but are there even chances left to take?
– The Beatnuts already compelled us to “fuck, drink beer & smoke some shit” throughout our youth. Even if they weren’t your bag, The Beasties & our old Uncle Luke asked us to do basically the same things years previous.
– Paris already called white folks devils.
– Dr. Dre smacked up Dee Barnes. Mike Jones got 1-2′ed by Trae. Alfamega trampled a whole crew…then got back on stage.
– Souljah Slim & L got shot on the very streets they rhymed about…and probably by “fans” who owned more than one of their tapes.
So yeah, the music needs to move forward in some way, find room to encompass new themes & sounds. Perhaps it was Big Brother who broke the mold for Kanye to make this transition by publicly professing his love for Coldplay. Kanye called artists “suckers” for listening “to Radiohead all day but go and make just another rap album. I say: don’t let society box you in.”
True.
Part of Kanye’s failure is that, with the prevalence of so many different mediums of media, he’s trying to explain it all too much. If you want to create new music & “to be remembered like ‘those artists in black and white photos’, the McCartneys and Jaggers of this world,” do it. I’ve always been in awe of genius, not because they took the time to explain the intricacies to me. MJ (neither one) never put out an instructional video. Magicians don’t reveal their tricks. Prince rarely speaks on the creation of his projects. Miles did it mainly in hindsight. Instead, they threw out the completed whole & said, “there you go, figure it out.”
As a result of his constant exposure, every scribe & blogger is trying to interpret the latest album no sooner than Kanye offers up the next soundbite. ‘Ye’s opened the door for the audience, arranged folding chairs & allowed them to sit right behind him while he paints, asking questions with each brush stroke. “Why did you use those chords? What’s with the echoing animal sounds?”
At the end of the day, ‘Ye will win awards & numerous accolades for this album. Even if critics & award groups hate it, they’re too afraid to admit it. But I’ll say it.
For every advance Kanye made, every chance he took with 808’s…, it’s subpar.
Whatever “genre” it falls under (because, no, Kanye you can’t just throw it in as “pop art,” that’s taken already), it doesn’t live up to all the fuss. “Love Lockdown” has wormed it’s way into the side of me that’s ready to accept it as good. I absolutely love “Heartless” in all of it’s splendor. But for every “Heartless,” there’s a trite “Robocop” that fucks up the schism for me. At it’s best attempt to break the mold, the album itself is still flawed & would rank low in…whatever that genre is he’s trying to delve into.
You are not in the catering business, Mr. West. Stop checking in with us to see how we like the entrée you’ve prepared. Close the door, work in peace with your trusted circle as the only advisers you allow to take a peek periodically. Work your magic & then present it to us. Don’t be so pretentious as to think we don’t understand. We do. There’s nothing wrong with “Street Lights.” It simply sucks ass when I’m on I-24 during rush hour & it sounds like the surrounding traffic is trapped inside the car with me. It’s not my bag.
You’ve already won our favor & belief so you don’t have to sell us on it.
West Will Never Return To Rap [Contact Music]
Hip-Hop’s Too Easy For Kanye [Guardian UK]
Posted in GENERAL, SMOKE BREAK — Tags: 808's & Heartbreak, Kanye West
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56 Comments
@ Gotty: How coul you be so heartleeeeeeeeeeeeesssss!!!
I meant “could”, sorry.
There’s a thin line between art & ego. Still not quite sure which side of the line “808’s…” falls on.
Still think it’s one of the best albums of the year.
Depressing music always makes me feel better lol.
Hey guys. Help me help this family for Christmas. Donate or Digg (or both). This family really needs some help.
http://wearesimian.net/files/help-us-help-them.html
i want to email kanye a hug. i think after that, he will be okay.
maybe i should post a hug as a comment on his blog though. just not sure how to do that. thoughts?
kanye west needs to stop smoking that shit
let me actually continue my thought…
this dude’s ego is so fucking obnoxious it makes me not want to listen to his music…
Interesting perspective Gotty, I appreciate your honesty.
As much as I agree that most of new hip-hop is bland and redundant, there are some artists that push the envelope and make music we’ve never heard before.. Dudes like Lupe, Wale, Asher Roth, B.o.B., Charles Hamilton and others are putting an emphasis more on lyrics than the mainstream has in recent times. I love hearing a new metaphor or use of imagery from these artists rather than the same 16 bars and chorus format that has made the artform boring.
Nice post, I look forward to more hip-hop analysis and discussion in the future. PEACE!
Fucking fans these days! Boo Hoo! Kanye isn’t rapping about “miracle whips” so they disparage him. Ninjaz complain about hiphop being creatively stagnant and banal, yet when they’re given something new it’s considered wack. Fuck outta here. If you don’t like it, then don’t buy it. Quit reminiscing over the halcyon days of when Kanye first emerged on the scene, move up to 2008.
Sure, the art form may be predictable, but there’s a lot of joy to be derived from it. I guess it’s easy for a nigga to decide to start singing when he really couldn’t rap in the first place.
There’s a reason why music is divided into genres. Everything ain’t for everyone. There are certain parameters that you need to stay within if you want to call yourself a musician in any genre. In rap, you rap and you do it over looped beats with occasional variations. If you’d rather sing through a machine over beats then here’s a newsflash: Thousands of people already did that shit. It’s called Trip-hop. The sad part is that he’s utter crap at this new game he’s playing.
I’d compare it to Jordan playing baseball, but that would only boost Kanye’s ego if he read this.
Well that gives a Mc like myself to step in and take over. While some rappers wanna sound like robots I’ll be kicking that real ish. Death to the autotune!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
“I guess it’s easy for a nigga to decide to start singing when he really couldn’t rap in the first place. ”
You’re buggin’
Though he ain’t the best on the m-i-c, ‘Yeezy’s lyrics ARE fresh and well thought-out.
Compare him to dudes like T.I. and Luda real quick – I like both of them as MC’s but ‘Ye’s rhymes are more creative and thought-provoking.
One thing about Kanye that I’ll always respect – he never tries to be anything he’s not. If he wants to go and do an auto-tune distortion-filled vocals type of LP, then let him. You can’t fault a dude for doing what he wants in a game saturated with artists that just go along with whatever trend is hot at the moment.
My $.02
Just what the world needs…another rapper “kicking that real ish”. (no offense Wize =))
Love him or hate him, the game needs more cats like Kanye, if nothing else, at least it would help break up the monotony.
“Where you sayin’ somethin’???/Uh uh, you can’t tell me NOTHIN’!” – Kanye West
FUCK KANGAY!!!!
I can honestly say that I do not like anything this man has made. His beats are mediocre at best in my opinion. If his ego was so fucking overshadowing his work, then maybe I could like his crappy music, but I just don’t. Kanye is the poster boy (along w/ Fluffy) for Megalomaniacs in this damned music industry that beat us over the head with such garbage!
I hope he NEVER does a hiphop record again. Hiphop is much better without his lame azz!
I can honestly say that I do not like anything this man has made
==========================
Tin ear. Must be. I’d get that checked out if I were you.
I don’t think I’m outta line saying that Kanye is no Jay, Nas or Rakim. He has surpassed those guys in the mainstream, but he’ll never be as skilled as any of them, as an MC.
I’m not saying he shouldn’t do him. That’s fine, but don’t claim to change the rap game by not rapping or acting as if rap is some inferior genre to be graduated from. That’s why people outside our culture don’t afford the same amount of respect to our art as we do theirs. When the leading lights in rap are talking about being beyond rap, why the fuck should they respect it?
When the leading lights in rap are talking about being beyond rap, why the fuck should they respect it?
==============================
Good point.
Great write.
Although I absolutely love 808s (to my own surprise), I feel you on what you’re saying about him explaining everything…I really enjoy his quotes and personality (I know I’m in the minority here) but he’s going too far to justify what he’s doing for sure…
nice post gotty. i agree that hip hop needs to break some new lyrical ground and i also think ‘ye needs to shut the hell up and let the music speak for itself. that being said, i’ve really been enjoying 808s. its prolly my 2nd favorite kanye album after late registration and my top album of the year. i will concede though that street lights sucks ass.
That’s what I don’t understand about 808’s; if this guy is done with rap then leave Robocop and Paranoid off the album, you wanna switch your style up, then stop catering to the center – go left, go so far left we can’t even see you.
I understand he has to re-brand himself as an artsy artist to be able to sell his music to the mass. But if he really wants to do something special, take the extra week in Hawaii to write some better lines, don’t release the singles then change them four times cause the blogs eat you up.
If Kanye really is the genius artist he claims to be then show us what your genius can produce; don’t find genius ways for others to help you produce your art.
I like the album, but it seems like all his other albums; it combines a watered down tone that caters to the pop audience – there was nothing relentless about Thriller; it punches you in the throat with a specific sound and makes no apologies.
This is another problem I have with Kanye; he’s producing for others with the same sounds to sell his sound as the dominant trend in music. Working with Common allowed his music a greater voice, making his release the defining sound. He’s doing it again with Jay, listen to the drums on Brooklyn Go Hard – History; same sounding drums from 808’s.
It seems like Kanye is more interested in selling himself as an artist rather than selling his art to provide for himself as an artist.
“It seems like Kanye is more interested in selling himself as an artist rather than selling his art to provide for himself as an artist.”
Well put.
I do understand where Kanye is coming from, but it seems as if dude just says things the wrong way sometimes IMO.
By definition the act alone is HIP-HOP so if he says hes not doing hip -hop hes really mind fucking folks.
I can’t see who gets credit for this write-up, but props on a good post nonetheless, and props to Red Hot Lover Deen for his input too.
I’m wondering if Mr. West is burning bridges with his holier-than-thou comments and attitude…
Whatever…
Maybe this explains a lot of this shit going on in hip-hop today:
http://www.spin.com/articles/sampling-dying?page=0%2C2
Shit, even Nas’ album only had 4 or 5 samples. Producers can be as genius as they want, but I’ll take samples any day. That’s the essence and the reason why most heads know that we all love Timbaland, but he’s no Premier, Dilla, Pete or Dre.
I agree with letting a nigga do him and be who he’s gonna be, make the music he wants to make, etc, etc….
but fcuk that……
Now that this dude’s gained success of the ears of hip-hop fans, there’s no need to shit on them when you decide you wanna wear tight sweaters and have an Andy Warhol moment.
I agree with the fact that hip-hop has collectively lost it’s balls because of excessive ballin’, but what he said is offensive and disrespectful.
Just as offensive and disrespectful as the suburban cat who uses hip-hop during his rebellious years and shits on it when it’s time to wear a suit like daddy and get a ‘real job’…
If he’s bored with hip-hop, be bored with it….
Do something different….
Fcuk it, be real about your disdain and fade away like Lauryn Hill or Sade if 16 bars and a mic offends you so much…..
but you never heard Sade coming back to shit on the music that gave her so much….
Saying shit like Kanye did is the equivalent of gaining success from affirmative-action and then wanting to eradicate it once you start getting a nice little check…… Clarence Thomas shit…
All Kanye does by proclaiming his brilliance is look like a dick….and give validity to the O’Reilly’s, and Imus’ of the world. He should know better. He’s said he was a genius, right?
Yes, this album is different, but it’s really not that good….and I’m STILL trying to like it…
Aside from ‘Heartless’, I’d rather listen to Depeche Mode or the effin’ Pet Shop Boys if I wanted to hear a better form of what dude ‘attempted’ to do with this album…
Pop-Art…..whatever…
Point guards wanna post up down low, and centers wanna cross over cats….this nigga wants to stop rapping……………and sing……
but he can’t…….
so he getsa whole album of auto-tune on………
like Roger Troutman……but worse……
and TELL ANYONE WHO WILL LISTEN how great he is, but the truly great ones don’t do that, they just do…..
Pretentious muhfukkkka just struck a nerve with me….
little late, but cosigning w/ flea
We always need artists to push the envelope and expand music, art, design or what have you to the next level and inspire others to do the same. The artist that do “change the game” are the ones who come out and do them. They have a vision of their music and it is music from the mind, heart, body and soul. They want to get their music out and hope that people will like it. They are not thinking to be the next Bob Marley or the next Curt Colbane. They maybe true fans and inspired by their music but the intent behind it is not to be the new leader.
Kanye is intent on being the game changer and to a degree I can admire that but on the same hand I am like what an arrogant bastard! 808’s to me sounds like all the good things Kanye likes about Cold Play, Thom York, Peter Bjorn And John to say the least and mash it all together and make a tribute album. It’s cool to like those artists or that type of music, but Ye is hip hop and you cant change that. Even when he talks he sounds like he is from England minus the accent. He is starting to turn into that kid, you know the one you grew up with or know from around the way, that does not like their ethnicity and they want to be of another ethnicity. Do you Ye and you are hip hop. If hip hop is so “cliche”, then change the hip hop game, which I think he can do. Change it like NWA did, change it like NaS did, change it like Puff did (that was not a good change, but change non the less). And stop trying to reinvent the wheel son.
agreed 100% Gotty. Ye talks too much about his projects. & that “Pop-Art” shit can blow bubbles.
Kanye isn’t doing anything new, go listen to a K-Os album… he’s just doing it without a good singing voice and a very limited sound palatte for his beats. Pop art?? More like a pop-tart. He put too much sugar in the mix, over-toasted it, and now that there’s smoke coming from the toaster he tries to say he meant to do that.
Waaaaaahhhhhhhhhh.
Shut up and make music.
Kanye isn’t doing anything new, go listen to a K-Os album… he’s just doing it without a good singing voice and a very limited sound palatte for his beats. Pop art?? More like a pop-tart. He put too much sugar in the mix, over-toasted it, and now that there’s smoke coming from the toaster he tries to say he meant to do that.
Waaaaaahhhhhhhhhh.
Shut up and make music.
FUCK KANGAY!!!!
I can honestly say that I do not like anything this man has made. His beats are mediocre at best in my opinion. If his ego was so fucking overshadowing his work, then maybe I could like his crappy music, but I just don’t. Kanye is the poster boy (along w/ Fluffy) for Megalomaniacs in this damned music industry that beat us over the head with such garbage!
I hope he NEVER does a hiphop record again. Hiphop is much better without his lame azz!
=========================================
What does his personality have to do with his music?
Look at the picture, not the picture frame. There is no denying that Kanye has some dope beats.
I’m also assuming that you are 15 based off of your “Kangay” comment (clever) and your “…lame azz” comment.
I like to compare 808 to The Love Below in as far as him taking the music to a new level and not givin a hot donkey’s ass what the next man thought. I remember when Speakerboxx/Love Below dropped I was like the only one bangin 3000’s half. Give Kanye some time. He just feelin mad cuzz allof the internets aint feelin it right now. Just like the Love Below it will grow on folks and his gead will get even bigger.
How can Kanye say he’s bored w/ hip-hop and its’ staleness when he just contributed to it by doing a track w/ DJ Khaled – the hip-hop personification of generic white Wonder bread???
That’s rather hypocritical.
Just read this heading in the Digg section:
“Kanye Says He’s Done Rapping, Will Sing For Good”
Sing for good??? That ninjas singing voice is harrrrrah-bulll…
* and once again, I miss the bear*
I think the point Kanye’s making is that hip hop music as a whole isn’t going to be perceived in 50 years time as ‘classic music’ in the same way that other genres are, if you look back to hip hop from ‘86, how much of that gets played much now? Rap really epitomises youthful, disposable music where as Yeezy wants to be a performer with a legacy, a performer who can still perform in 15 years time as a serious artist rather than a throwback novelty selling tickets due to nostalgia.
I agree with him, if you want to be that type of entertainer then hip hop’s probably not gonna garner you those type of critical laurels.
Look at (once) big name artists like EPMD, now grinding out low quality albums and doing embarrassing (yeah I said it) nostalgia tours…This album, for him is about cementing the transition from ‘rap star’ to ‘global celebrity’ and once you’re a global celebrity you don’t end up in 20 years doing gigs in dingy venues for a couple of grand…
If Kanye thinks 808s is some kind of paradigm shift he’s hugely mistaken, as talented a producer as he is, his arrogance is leading him to believe that because he’s been successful in one genre that he can effortlessly master other genres. It’s the equivalent of some egomaniacal, coke-fuelled rock dinosaur deciding he wants to make a ‘hip hop’ album without taking any time to understand the nuances of the genre, and then creating something that to the trained hip hop listeners ear sounds like uninspired trash…
“love lockdown” was tight. but saying this electro synth pop he’s making now is genre-bending is dumb. there’s a number of tight jeaned synth pop bands out there playing indie coffee shops that are doing exactly what he’s done.
see Radiohead: Kid A
they beat kanye to the punch about 8 years ago…so did beck. dammit the list is endless
Looking at the history of hip hop, the genre seemed to always move in a direction and then another. I think what’s affecting the genre now is the over saturation of major media in the market and the airwaves. A few companies own the record labels and the radio stations. They get to pick and choose what’s marketable and have a choke hold on creativity. People are getting shut out for club bangers and dance numbers. Its happening in all music right now and scares the shit out of me.
Go ahead Kanye, try to branch out. Worked out well for Madonna. Look how she’s turning out. At least she has a posh British accent. Hip-hop has to change, that seems clear, but what Kanye is saying is just garbage. His arrogance (not swagger, but arrogance) is really starting to piss me off. The guy has such an ego that now its starting to just get in the way of what was before a brilliant musical career. 808s just perplexes me. If he wants to be the next Andy Worhal, fine fucking do it, but stop trying to force it down my throat or tell me how I should be an artist. Kanye is seriously one of the least humble artists I have ever seen.
My thing is why does he have to spit in the face of the culture that helped him put food on the table. If he wants to experiment and challenge himself musically; then do it. Everyone should strive to push themselves to new limits; but there isn’t any call to disrepect the art form that introduced you to the masses. As far as hip hop becoming boring and stale, its just like politics. If you don’t go out and support the innovative music, the radio stations will continue to play the same garbage, which in turn will make the labels continue to put out these tired acts.
Nobody mentions that Scarface basically just said the same thing.
@ kingd40
808’s is no comparison to The Love Below. The Love Below shits on 808’s. I am not gonna lie when I first heard that Outkast was doing solo projects and 3000 was singing I was definitely skeptical. So skeptical that I listened to Speakerbox twice before I listened to The Love Below. After I had my first spin listening to The Love Below, I was hooked. Shit I don’t even think I listened to SpeakerBox again after that.
^ Biggest difference is that Andre has singing ability. Kanye has none.
Amp:
Face saying that he wants to record an rock album or that if he rhymes again it won’t be under the scareface name is different then Kanye’s shitting on the culture.
No but the love below was very on point and it didnt come from a place trying too hard to impress people, it just flowed. like my man said it shits on 808
808’s is spotty, 808s is….. well……… yes…. pretentious, just like that pop art bs
This whole rap’s newfound infatuation with art is a load of horseshit and i see right through it
Stick to Keith Herrings rappers because i dont think warhol gave a shit about your black asses
I know that Love Below shits on 808,I guess I was just speaking as far as artistic direction and growth. I just think this particular rant stems from the fact that Kanye is an internet junkie and he can’t handle all the negative feedback he’s readin on most forums. I mean come on everyone knows he’s arrogant and narcissistic and he has to whine about something so he will feel like maybe then people will understand him. If this album would have had half of the direction and onpoint as his other albums, trust me we would be hearing even crazier shit from his big headed ass.
There’s several issues at play here:
1) As self-proclaimed hip-hop fans, we need to stop allowing people (in this case, maybe even Kanye) to put hip-hop in a box. Since when does hip-hop have to consist of a certain type of beat with someone rapping? Hip-hop is a culture, and you’d be hard-pressed to find a homogeneous culture, so to say you can’t “be” hip-hop without rapping is false.
2) Genre labeling kills music. Who the hell cares what genre an artist or album is? Why does it matter? What effect does it have on the music? All it seems to do is create a false sense of satisfaction for the listener in knowing that the artist is aligned with their musical preferences.
3) While I agree that seemingly shitting on your original fan base is not a good look, there is a point to be made in saying that rap music has lost its way. It is not controlled by artists any longer, it is run by large organizations, radio, and television with profit in mind. Why would you want to willingly put yourself in a situation where you don’t control anything?
The main thing to take away from this for me is, whether he acknowledges it or not, Kanye West personifies hip-hop culture. And deeming himself a “pop-artist” will never change that.
I approve of this article, in both content and structure. Impeccable writing.
Kanye is going to have to apologize for all of this in a few years, hopefully he will be forgiven.
Man, for all the crying of rivers he does, he has the nerve to go and burn the bridges he needs to get over it. Po’ thang.
I’d give it a B- at best. Either way the whole thing’s obsolete as the UK article its taken from was derived from a misquote. I just thank God we don’t use paper 4 all this shit.
KANYE WEST IS A FUCKING FAGGOT.
no disrespect to homosexual people here.
I thought this post was going to be that Kanye said he was going to START rapping…
ie: he never could spit, and if it wasnt for rappers wanting to get on his beats, he would have been dissed out / never made it in, to the hip hop game in the first place.
i never co-signed this pretty boy french fashion retard, and i never will
Boosie, Webbie, Foxx, whoever else, still doing real hip hop.
Kanye West and all his fans can catch shots to the head.
Peace
“…Rox ski Says:
FUCK KANGAY!!!!
I can honestly say that I do not like anything this man has made. His beats are mediocre at best in my opinion. If his ego was so fucking overshadowing his work, then maybe I could like his crappy music, but I just don’t. Kanye is the poster boy (along w/ Fluffy) for Megalomaniacs in this damned music industry that beat us over the head with such garbage!
I hope he NEVER does a hiphop record again. Hiphop is much better without his lame azz!…”
You said it perfectly cousin.
OED Says:
Just read this heading in the Digg section:
“Kanye Says He’s Done Rapping, Will Sing For Good”
Sing for good??? That ninjas singing voice is harrrrrah-bulll…
* and once again, I miss the bear*
^^^^^^
*i miss the bear too* :-(
He’s making comparisons to all these great SINGERS!!! Kanye’s live performances for his songs, on this album, have all been horrible, I just seen the Euro MTV Awards, and dude’s voice was crackin like a fucken 13 year old….
I have a few problems with Kanye’s statements. One, I think it’s a little out of line to coin your own new music genre and claim to be the founder. I’d much rather see him do something original and let the fans/public name it. Two, I can appreciate him wanting to do something new and artistic, but the way he lays it out in that quote is kicking dirt in the faces of the people (even if there are only a few) that ARE hip hop and ARE artists. You’ve got to admit there are still people doing original shit and are making art within hip hop. Kanye just spit on em.
If everyone decided they’d only make new and original stuff that was never done before music would be a clusterfuck or ridiculous garbage, lets appreciate the people who are still hip hop and STILL being original artists.
i am glad he is trying new things and experimenting with different sounds but he can’t say he will never do hip hop again when he is producing the entire blueprint3 album. kanye doin what kanye do best right here – and that’s starting a commotion over nothing..