Hyped…For The Critical Beatdown
GENERAL By TSSCrew on October 30, 2007 at 8:56 am
Words By Patrick M.
The New Yorker’s main music critic, Sasha Frere-Jones, wrote an article entitled “A Paler Shade Of White” in last week’s issue looking at indie rock music, specifically the “whiteness” of the genre. Frere-Jones argues that indie rock has evolved as a musical genre notable for its independence from the traditional rhythmic influences of African-American music. 20th Century American popular music has a long tradition of drawing from both white and black culture, and the first truly mega rock and roll groups (The Rolling Stones/Beatles etc.) were all influenced or directly indebted to much of their material from African-American blues. However, this article argues that changes in the legal and cultural landscape of America have halted the musical “integration,” process.
My knowledge of indie rock is limited to The Killers and Arcade Fire, so I’m unable to fully judge Frere-Jones’ thesis, although I’ll admit I don’t hear a lot of Muddy Waters in their music. For our purposes, I’m more interested in Frere-Jones’ statements about how this divide between white and black music has influenced hip-hop, and more specifically his argument that the rise of gangster rap into mainstream popularity was the tipping point in this process. I’m always very interested when mainstream art critics discuss hip-hop, because how they criticize, while often misinformed and contrary, provides insight into how rap music and hip-hop culture are explained to non-fans. Unlike say, Fox News, The New Yorker treats every art form seriously and as expected Frere-Jones shows respect for hip-hop culture and rap music. But he comes off to me as a bit of a sophist, making comments that sound like good arguments that. However when stripped down, they are oversimplifications or falsehoods.
Frere-Jones uses The Chronic and Snoop’s concurrent rise to stardom as the watershed moments of hip-hop in insulating itself culturally as an area where white musicians were not allowed. Why did this divide come up? According to Frere-Jones “…the potential for embarrassment had become a sufficient deterrent for white musicians tempted to emulate their black heroes. Who would take on Snoop, one of the most naturally gifted vocalists of the day?”
I think on this a bit. In terms of straight covers of rap verses…it doesn’t really happen that often, and for good reason. A rapper’s talents are a combination of lyrical abilities, voice, and images. You can’t cover Snoop because you aren’t Snoop, which has nothing to do with being white or black. If you are going to reinterpert a Snoop song as your own, you can either 1) create your own vocals, be they song or rap over the beat, 2.) get a live band to play an interpreted version of the beat with Snoop’s vocals unchanged, or 3.) Get Snoop to guest a verse on your own music. All three of these things are done all of the time in rap music. Moreover, there are countless examples of MCs challenging the top dog (no pun intended) be it Snoop, Jay, or whomever to get attention to themselves. Plenty of people take on Snoop, even if they have no chance of winning.
More incredulously, the first part of this quote reads like a huge barrier to entry into hip-hop exists for white artists and fans. That’s just wrong. In fact, it’s moving in the other direction. From audiences at shows, to DJs & MCs, to album buyers, to internet posters, the evidence of the diversity of the hip-hop scene is everywhere. In 2007, if a white kid wants to emulate his hero Snoop, he’s most likely going to become a rapper or a DJ (or a blogger,) rather than start a rock band that steals a few baselines from “Tha Shiznit.” To me, this shows a higher level of musical mixing, and ignorance on the part of the author.
Back in 1992, I am sure that many people thought gangster rap was a fad that would extinguish within a few years. This sentiment still exists today; The New Yorker also recently quoted Janet Reno as saying she “looked forward to a time when hip-hop was not so prevalant.” (Sorry Janet, I don’t think you’ll be around for that day.) To the more open-minded, like Frere-Jones, admitting a like for The Chronic meant admitting something else: Snoop and Dre were referencing a life, culture, and values, that were vastly different than his own, even if it was happening ten miles away from his apartment. And for some reason, be it the violence, guilt that this was happening in our cities or lack of self-confidence, what was “cool” for Mick Jagger in 1961 turned into embarrassment for yuppies everywhere.
But even if a whole segment of musicians were so turned off to these developments that they consciously or unconsciously forsake all black musical influence and created indie rock (a little preposterous), they are the exception. Two of today’s most popular artists - Amy Winehouse and JTimberlake - are as white as Dick Cheney, yet somehow have managed to get over any embarassment to incorporate hip-hop’s musical traditions into their work. Maybe such sentiments existed for Frere-Jones, The Arcade Fire and The New Yorker’s audience.
In this case, the truth isn’t so black and white.
Posted in GENERAL, SMOKE BREAK
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20 Comments
good read
Freumst !
The Killers and Arcade fire were both directly influenced by David Bowie, who was directly influenced by James Brown.
Besides, those bands are major label, not really “indie” anymore. Which is good because they’re signed to major labels because they’re good enough to get signed.
However much an “indie” band is independent from black music is directly proportional to how much that band sucks. Shitty white college kids are ignorant of a lot of things. If they learned some more about why all the best rock musicians (white or black) channel black r&b music, they’d make better music themselves.
Saying “indie music isn’t influenced by black music” might be true, but it’s the same as saying “indie music is made by fools who are too stupid to do anything but whine and watch the Daily Show stoned every night.”
Even though I disagree slightly with the article (IMO all American music is influenced by Black music. Black culture is American culture ), I see some validity to what the author is saying.
hey—
i watch the daily show stoned every night!
ha.
anyways good write marmar…
i only have my own perceptions of the indie rock scene, and i don’t want to go too far in speculation about their relative whiteness (though i most definitely have my guesses)…but i will say this:
most indie rock kids i know have super annoying taste in hip hop. instead of being told what to like by the mainstream media, they are told what its OK to like by the just-under-the-mainstream media. then they get to enjoy feeling like they made a CHOICE to like that artist instead of the artist that wasn’t on pitchfork, just like everyone else did.
i can’t say they have bad taste, cause the rappers they like, in general, are among my favorites (kweli, clipse, wayne, ghost)…i’ll just say they have NO taste.
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Reposts, reviews, feedback, all welcome…burn em for your friends…
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Front and back cover attached.
Tracklist:
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2. Lupe Fiasco-Dumb it Down
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6. Havoc-Be There
7. Little Brother-Can’t Win for Losing
8. Wu-Tang Clan/Erykah Badu-The Heart Gently Weeps
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11. Chamillionaire-The Evening News
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Covers here:
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Enjoy.
Peace.
^I hate debates invloving race & music, cause I don’t think music should have any boundries. Good tunes are good tunes. I know that’s an naive, idealistic way of viewing things, but it’s really how I feel. Alot of my homies would see me differently if they knew that I listened to Nirvana & Pink Floyd right alongside Hov & Pac, and that’s effed up. I think it’s alot “cooler” for white people to be into black music than vice versa. I remember going to the Wiz in 7th grade to cop Guns & Roses “Use Your Illusion pts.1&2″ & getting clowned by my friends for the rest of the year.
I disagree with you on these points Patrick. First, Sasha Frere-Jones isn’t an erstwhile hip-hop critic. He is steeped in music and has loads of experience writing about its genres. Second, I think he is right (as a white writer) to acknowledge some of the racial distance between listener and art form. Although I concur that white fans and artists can participate, because of the racial history in this country, and some of its inherent problems, it is near implausible to say that integration is seamless when it comes to music. That’s kind of idealistic. What he’s trying to assert about hip-hop (I think) is that once the racial appropriation standards in it shifted, we were just a bit removed from its origins. Not to say that white artists and fans have only subtracted from it, but that they made it different from what it was. It’s up to us to judge whether that’s good or bad. On the one hand, we get an Eminem: clearly one of the best of our time. On the other hand, we get the White Rapper Show which struggles to understand how whites fit into the commercial and social aspects of it.
While SFJ’s point is not pleasant, it is important that he makes it in light of the history of jazz, rhythm and blues and rock and roll. All three of those forms were, at first, essentially black. They still retain elements of black music but have drastically changed in terms of consumption patterns and related royalties. When I do the math, I see hip-hop heading the same way. Maybe it’s beyond the pail but we need to discuss those changes.
Did anyone here the new Snoop - Sexual Eruption ? This cat is rocking the T-Pain “talk box”
Snoop you need some better weed….your high and creativity is wearing off!!!
http://www.mediafire.com/?2idxiyl3bl1
Thanx for the new mix Trackstar, those “Boogie Bang” joints are always dope so keep ‘em coming! I don’t give a shit what colour you are, if the music is bangin’ it’s bangin’!!! I love Led Zepplin & John Lennon, plus I’m one of the most hood cats you’ll ever meet!!! I feel that as long as people acknowledge the contributions of Black musicians to developing various forms of music, it’s cool for other races to make their contributions also because I think each race has a different ear and therefore has a unique sound. That’s why I love hiphop so much, it has been able to break racial barriers and allow different nationalities to add their flavour to further broaden the soundscape.
Pretty sure Beware’s got one up his sleeve for the Snoopy track.
Excellent analysis, Drew.
Drew I agree with alot of what you say, regarding where hip-hop came from and where it’s headed, but I thought that Frere-Jones was saying that the rise of gangster rap entrenched the barrier between white and black artists, while I am arguing it did not. If anything it made it more popular, and eventually, more accessiable. What follows then is changes in the music and the culture you are talking about, which have certainly happened.
And you are right; that point needs to be on the table for discussion, and I do respect Frere-Jones for starting it, in his own way. I’m just thinking that if you do, you’ve got to get the history right so you know exactly what you’re dealing with.
Good lookin out Flea. Glad you enjoy them….
@ampgeez, I feel you about race/music debates. I mean there are always the kids who’s only idea of black culture is what MTV and the radio shove down their throats. But that argument can be applied to all races in certain aspects of culture. I think there are people who listen to exclusively underground/overground/MTV what have you. And then there are people who listen to music that they can just vibe with, stuff they like to bump in their car. Then theres people who appreciate lyrical depth. None of that has to do with ethnicity, music is universal.
Yo. Gotttay.
That ad right above the comments is egregious.
Just a whole lotta young anon @ss.
Typically its like a Paris Hilton, or a Buy this ringtone..that shit is like mtv uncut for youngbucks or
some sh*t.
Man, none of you listen to Indie music do you?
It shows, because NONE of it is influenced by Black culture or black music. But its all irrelevant anyway.
The whole article and theory is flawed because it is wholly wrong.
And by the way - if Tank Hutch said this “However much an “indie” band is independent from black music is directly proportional to how much that band sucks. Shitty white college kids are ignorant of a lot of things. If they learned some more about why all the best rock musicians (white or black) channel black r&b music, they’d make better music themselves” to my face I’d slap the shit out of him. Most ignorant, uninformed and arrogantly opionated (in the worst way) comment I’ve seen for a long while. Cunt.
IDK Adam the acoustic indie sounds very “blusey” to me…so to say that indie music is not influenced by black culture seems DEAD WRONG! In fact buddy from The Postal Service has been talking about doing a song with Ghostface, so if you think indie is your sanctuary from “negrodom” think again.
I also think that SFJ is off-base in saying that the split occurred with the rise of gangsta rap in the early Nineties. First off, the question is rock’s connection to its African American roots, not whether rock at any given time is emulating the latest thing in African American musical expression. His complaint wasn’t that Arcade Fire isn’t spittin’ rhymes, it was that their rhythm section has no bottom. Arcade Fire was influenced by Talking Heads, who started off as art rock, but by 1980’s Remain in Light, they were very funky (and don’t forget the Tom Tom Club off-shoot).
Leadbelly was among the artists that influenced Kurt Cobain, and Jack White of the White Stripes listened to Son House and Blind Willie McTell in his youth. The early punk pioneers were influenced by R&B (The Clash were big fans of Lee Dorsey) and reggae. Maybe the problem is that today’s indie bands are listening to bands that were influenced by bands that were influenced by R&B. They’re so far removed from the source that they’ve lost the soul.
Now I see Slate rips him apart:
For Thugnificence, Postal Service is not Indie, its electronica.
Indie is for example, Franz Ferdinand, The Killers, Kaiser Chiefs, Arctic Monkeys etc. All that type of stuff. If you think that is influenced by hip-hop or black culture you are very much wrong.
Plus, you seem to have taken my claim that Indie music (not all of it, but the average Indie band lets say) isn’t influenced by black culture as some sort of insult to you or something (see cynical use of ‘Negrodom’ in inverted commas). Its not at all, it was nothing more than an observation on my part.