Lil Wayne and Kanye Redux
GENERAL By Drew Ricketts on June 23, 2007 at 7:33 am
Attention deficit music?
Sure. I’m fine with the fact that both Weezy and ‘Ye are giving imprimaturs for nonsensical lines that sound good. I can buy this over the finger snappin’ and kill-em-all aspect. Maybe the pop culture references in their songs will wear thin, or the fact that both men are more prolific than any other artists by way of their postmodern takeovers of any and every tune that comes out will unnerve me eventually. For right here, right now, I could not be more pleased with a summer devoted to hearing airy hits. “Can’t Tell Me Nothing,” the song and the mixtape, is much ado about nothing indeed. It’s got references to Kanye before and during the fame – big surprise there – and a few gibberish words like “apologin’” to support some of the acrid rhymes. Then again, that’s the whole point. In the midst of some of the more trenchant records about to grace the music world, Common’s Finding Forever and Curtis making his bid to be reclaimant of the throne, I need some recumbent music to sail into summer. For now, the theme du jour is Fabolous’ Somethin’ to Nothin’ concept, where forgettable is memorable. Mixtapes and hit singles have made it downright impossible to retain a realistic attention span.
Every time I turn around someone asks if I’ve heard the new Lil’ Wayne joint or the new Kanye joint. With some guilt I admit that I have heard the joint in question, and pored over it with a fine-toothed comb for eighties film drops, semiotic significance, poetic mastery, musical appeal and social importance. But then I think about what is really arresting about their music: nothing. It’s not as if they don’t address issues in their lives, views on women (limited), or the wide scope of current events but they are in no way tethered to addressing things in a serious manner. I like that dearth of gravity because it makes Jeezy’s gangster rhetoric less weighty, Hov’s constant financial reports seem fun and silly, and rap what it’s supposed to be, unconsciously good. I crave “Ay Bay Bay”, “Bartender” and “Umbrella” more than I could readily admit because the simplicity/stupidity of it all allows me to sing along blindly.
In my view, Wayne has made more headway with the nothingness feeling than Kanye has. For one, Lil’ Wayne can rhyme with unending dexterity so that his pronunciation-subversion comes off as intentional compared to Kanye’s often clumsy rendering of the English language as he runs out of breath. Wayne avoids most substance like the plague though, probably believing that his casual fans would have reason to criticize him more. He’s correct for assuming that. Catapulting oneself into the world of pithy topics is like swinging the battle axe against everything hip hop is today. My lip gloss is cool. My lip gloss is poppin’. This is why I’m hot. We can easily understand those sentiments more than we can the lamentations about a past hurricane tragedy or the pitfalls of early celebrity and drug use. Wayne may internally pine to express more of the latter, as evidenced by “Feel Like Dying” but he will smoke his “La La La” as the refrain.
‘Ye has never gained my approbation (not that he needs it) because his lyrics fall just short of being anything, either compelling through use of the punchline or mesmerizing by virtue of flow. With “Can’t Tell Me Nothing” Kanye swerves into fingernail polish songs with aplomb. It’s as if he wants me to expect less and be happy with it. Mission accomplished. Irony is the word of the day even if we barely recognize it. Kanye and Weezy are incredibly aware of how to make a “dumb” song versus a “smart” song and use their awareness to do what is least expected. I only hope they can maintain the break-neck celerity they have so far without fizzling in a few months while I’m still hung over from the partying songs.
T.I. - Respect This Hustle
50 Cent ft. Robin Thicke - Follow My Lead (Live)
Olivia Feat. Missy Elliot - Cherry Pop
Killer Mike - Good 4 U
Ja Rule Feat Lil Wayne - Uh Oh
Fab Feat NeYo Paperboi & T.I. - Make Me Better (Remix)
Posted in GENERAL, LOOSIES
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37 Comments
i beat tss with the hustle joint hahaha
youheardthatnew got that fire!
Good job Millions. Your trophy’s in the mail.
Nice piece Drew.
cheah! this my first award, I wasn’t prepared or anything but I got this lil speech. first of all I’d like to thank god and M.Z.’s mom…
and TSS, how could I forget! yall hold me down, remember double up? yall the first site I check when i get online!
I feel like i’m missing an inside joke :| lol
I’m jus playin around…I been searching the net all day for that T.I., aint got nuttin betta 2 do
its an interesting point of view but i thought cant tell me nothing was the first time kanye has said something in a minute. the song is far from deep but atleast its not as weak as most of his lyrics. same with wayne. lately hes been alittle more creative (”Dyin”..yep its all about drugs but he painted a vivid pic!!! ) and “La” ..did u listen to it? it wasn’t all blah blah blah it had alittle substance in it which is alittle more than most rappers out now. enjoyed reading your opinion but our opinions differ.
I agree. I thought “Can’t Tell…” had some of ‘Ye’s most “let me put my real thoughts onto a track for everybody to hear” songs in a while. He does it so lackidasical that it might not appear as straight fwd as “All Falls Down” but it’s in the same vein.
So are we to condemn Ye & Weezy because they aren’t thinking outside the box, or if they are; not expressing those ideas? The “current” record industry is not the place for that (it ain’t the 90’s no mo dawg) if you think outside the box you’ll end up outside the game living in a box. The masses don’t want you to blow their “dumb-music” buzz and the exec’s aint going aginst the grain. So you can’t force feed the people just give a little at a time…”food for the soul”.
IM NOT MUCH INTO WAYNE.. BUT MAN…. HOW CAN YOU BE HATING ON TWO GUYS IN THE SAME GAME MAKING IT THERE OWN… I MEAN.. YOU TALK ABOUT GUYS NOT SAYING MUCH… WAYNE AND KANYE HAVE BEEN SAYING ALLOT… THE BAD THING IS THAT i CAN HEAR THE WORST OF HIP HOP ON TODAYS RADIO.. AND BY FAR BOTH THESES GUYS ARE NOT THE WORST…. KANYE BRINGS CREATIVITY TO THE GAME… NAH RIGHT POSTED A VIDEO OF KANYE MAKING A BEAT… IF YOU SEE THAT YOU CAN FEEL THE QUALITY THAT IS KANYE WEST.. I THINK THAT HE DOES REPRESENT WHAT WAS GOOD ABOUT THE OLD SCHOOL HIP HOP… IT WAS FUN, FEEL GOOD MUSIC THATS WERE WE LACK TODAY.. AND IF RADIO IS ANY INDICATION OF WHAT IS GOOD THEN.. I DONT WANT TO BE RIGHT…
I view Can’t Tell Me Nothing in the same vein as Spaceship.
“I know jesus died for us, but I couldn’t tell you who decides wars…”
“You can live through anything if magic made it…”
That’s pretty smart-ass, unless I’m missing something.
And I can see where you’re going with it, at least with weezy.
But I think we haven’t heard that much from ‘Ye to really categorize him in the same breath, especially lately. He’s not releasing mixtapes weekly.
^Hell I’m trying to remember how long its been since I listened to the radio…
Damn,… does my radio even work?!…
Lemme go check. BRB
“‘Ye has never gained my approbation (not that he needs it) because his lyrics fall just short of being anything, either compelling through use of the punchline…”
I disagree. Kanye has punchlines galore…some of them really funny. Other times, he likes to get giddy about their “deepness” during interviews and such.
I think he’s helped by the fact that he puts more into his lyric writing than your average MC because 1) he’s a producer, and 2) he knows he has to come that much nicer. I’ve heard talk of ghostwriters, but I’ve never found out for certain. I’ve heard the same thing about Wayne, too.
“…or mesmerizing by virtue of flow.”
Also not entirely true, but remember, Kanye hasn’t always been an emcee. He’s capable of rapping, and clearly likes to do so, but he’s defined more by his production. As he should be.
He also comes off better in cameos than he does on his own shit, which is still above par for a cat that hasn’t been cyphering with the gods for his entire career. Kanye didn’t grow up a little scruffy backpacker running the streets and sneaking into clubs here and there to soak up the culture. I used to think his style was really basic, and it still can be sometimes, but his vision is clearly greater than about 99% of the rest of mainstream hip-hop right now, so I’m not going to trip. No one’s rapping about the shit that Kanye raps about…that accessible, everyman shit. You can’t say the same thing about others.
There’s also much more to lyrics than just the appeal of flow and punchlines.
And I wouldn’t take “Can’t Tell Me Nothing” as Kanye being serious in any way. It’s something to throw out there and test the waters months before the album drops. And still, there’s some gems in there…the “How he move in a room full of ‘nos’…” line, the “…treasure, what’s your pleasure, life is a bitch, dependin’ how you dress her…” line, the T.R.O.Y. quote at the end. Shit’s kinda hot. It’s all a matter of opinion, though.
Here’s a particularly inspired Kanye verse from the Consequence album. There’s a couple punch-ins in there, but it works.
http://www.zshare.net/audio/2398150f5113f8/
Whew…. yeah it still works.
I think right now, I’m numbed by the lack of depth in lyrics today. I think I’m only expecting it from certain artists today (yes, this is sad) and Lil’ Wayne isn’t one of them. Honestly, a hot Weezy track to me now is one that just fun to listen to.
I will say this… all of the people complaining about Kanye just end up being the ones on his nuts the most after the album drops…. hard to believe when almost everything else sounds the same huh?
Peace
And 4T - Kanye is one of the few cats that do think outside the box when it comes to his shit. Kanye raps about exactly what he wants, and that’s not to say that Jeezy and T.I. don’t, but he doesn’t have to serve the people that gangster shit that the corporates have come to expect. That’s not him, anyway.
Z, that’s real talk. Point taken. lol
Graduation will smash everything. Trust.
You know why?
Because that’s the way Kanye wants it…I can’t help but respect a cat with that kind of fire, no matter what technical limitations they may have.
LMAO@Doug. Maybe I should check mine too.
And yes everybody, “Graduation”, “Finding Forever” and a couple others are highly anticipated but let’s not look past the lyrically exceptional albums in “Desire” and “Ear Drum”. Don’t let advances and leaks make you stomach bigger than your ears…
Wow, you really outlined all the reasons why I’m not taken in by this new Kanye music, and why I haven’t liked anything Wayne’s put out since ‘05. All those things you’re willing to accept, those things basically ruin the music for me. Yeah, it’s better than ’snap’ music, I guess. I mean, I don’t even listen to ’snap’ music–I KNOW that’s bad–so I don’t even have the comparision. I guess it’s so much better than the other shit, that you don’t see this stuff as shit. But from my more objective opinion, the new Kanye songs are boring, nonsensical, and have little if any theme or point to them.
Not knocking your viewpoint. Good for you if you like that. But to me the new Kanye is the sound of millions of brains turning off with the unearned acceptance that this MUST be the new great hiphop music.
That doesn’t go for Common, though. I’m not even a BIG fan of his, but I can obviously sense a lot more depth to his stuff than Kanye’s.
OOOoooh… I’m so sorry Kweli.
Ear Drum will be bananas! All hail Talib Kweli B.K. Emcee.
and I must admit I’m looking forward to Desire as well. Pharoahe has been in the game so long, and has plenty a experiences to spit about on an album.
All together, We should be fortunate that we are expecting such a good year in music. Gotta admit, we’ve had some shitty ones.
^By my ‘more objective viewpoint’ above, what I meant by that was that I don’t have the even worse hiphop music–’snap’ and all that–skewing my taste. If you forcefeed someone shit-sandwiches for a month, than a sandwich with rotten bologia in it would probably taste pretty good afterwards, by comparison. This new Kanye and Weezy stuff, to me, is like a rotten sandwich, except I haven’t been eating so bad lately, so I’m not so desperate to touch it.
^Hungry for hip-hop… I feel your pain.
BUT, I’m a Kanye fan….
So I’m eating! SOUP’S UP! lol
“Stronger” is already gonna be a Summer banger.
I’m happy about this post. for the simple fact that it isn’t making Kanye and Wayne Seem like rap gods. I’m tired of hearing people speak of wayne like he really says shit thats unthinkable. But if you really break his lines and syntax and all of the lyric down. He doesn’t talk about shit. and will always throw in words you know he had to force in the song just to make something rhyme. as well as his occasional nursery rhyme flows that he spews sometimes. although i do like feel like dying since its soooo retarded…that it’s good. as for Kanye, I like his music but not him as a person. I hate Can’t tell me nothing. but if i am correct this site was giving that song a lot of push. but I’m glad people realize it aint about shit. with an annoying voice looped over it. lol.
but the most recent surprise is the new song that Jay did. He’s finally back to where I was hoping he would be. He sounds like some BluePrint 1 shit on this. The Song is called Watch what you say with T.I. who is one of the only commercial cats i fuck with. Yall have to go to Hiphopgame to hear it, it’s a big change from all that Umbrella shit. lol.
^”Watch What You Say” was in the loosies from yesterday. I like that joint too.
Definitely a T.I. fan as well.
why does this shit have to breakdown to content? you guys are comparing shit that doesn’t make any sense to me. we have heard a % of what these guys are putting up on their new albums, and y’all looking for a “they ain’t rappping about shit” bandwagon already?
i know wayne rapped about some shit on “dying”, cause i have been where he was at, “hustler muzik” cause i felt it, and countless other songs. when dedication 2 dropped everyone was so happy he stepped up to say something about new oreleans with “georgia…bush”. but now, the reason he hasn’t made it is his content.
kanye, i ain’t even justifying it: “roses”, “through the wire”, “last call”, “drive slow”, etc. cause “can’t tell…” and “stronger” are not the most introspective songs on the planet he is spitting dumb? i dig all this difference in opinion, cause without it where would we be, i just ain’t feeling this idea. glad we are all not there to ride these two artists sacks, but for someone that digs alot of what these two put out, i don’t agree.
i think wayne flips the game on a lyrical, amount of material, style of flow, and experimental attitude (that not many of his predecessors, in his style of music, you can take that as southern or gangster or trap music) better than anyone right now.
kanye flips it on production. he takes chances, in a time when producers have their signature style (tell me you can’t here a runners, storch, neptunes-pharrel, etc. beat a mile away), he flips it, and his only link to it is his voice. i dig it, for what it is, GOOD music (no pun intended).
but this is coming from a guy who probably isn’t as smart as you. =) just my opinion, i could be worng.
I’m not hopping on any bandwagons to begin with. I have, and Never will like Lil Wayne. Since all this hype has been placed on him, I’ve Never liked him, Not a hater, but most definitely not a fan, he exaggerates everything he does like he’s making some gigantic move and shit. First off, I hope yall don’t believe that this dude makes millions off of coke. he has never needed to push coke to begin with since his ‘daddy’ has kept him rich since before he was even old enough to understand the relevance of money in this world. As well as the fact that he got caught in a hotel room smoking weed. Now you know he couldn’t be cautious enough to successfully smuggle pounds upon pounds of coke through customs when he can’t even not get caught smoking herb. two, now all of a sudden he’s a hardcore blood…..When in the old cash money videos, (if memory Serves me correct), I can vividly remember him rocking blue bandanas in videos and shit. He just reminds of that one short dude you knew in school who always talked shit, and everybody just didn’t pay attention cause we knew he was a joker.
I don’t get where everyones respect for his words come from. He’s more like a comedian to me. The only time i listen to his shit is when I need a good laugh, and he is quite the jester. lol. Now Kanye I won’t front, His two albums College dropout and Late Registration, were fire, but in his past collaborations, He has pulled a jay, where he just rambles about himself like an old man talking about what he used to be, except much more pointless, but I think stronger is making me look forward to his album. Cause Daft Punk is beast so hopefully they expand their horizons, and maybe even have the nujabes or fat jon produce for him, or do a collaboration with royksopp, or maybe have Little Brother feature on the album.
And Good Clothes…is such a generic song. lol but it’s funny. it reminds me of Phonte’s rap about working retail on the Last Day’s Beat. lol.
And Ear Drum Advance was pretty awesome. More artists need to work with Madlib. The Most diverse producer known in my opinion.
Props to you though @ Veego. Cause that’s one thing i will give Wayne, he always comes on the track rapping different which is good. I’m actually going to do a thorough analysis of it and post it here. track for track, line for line. And I really like What Kanye is doing with the Common albums so far. People is dope as well as black maybe. The Game is a little bland though in my opinion.
thank you. i don’t want to hate on anyone, i think everyone should have an opinion, i just get upset when our comments are, “NO HE SUCKS!!” somebody likes it. i ain’t big on aesop rock, i repsect it, but somebody likes it.
i think alot of music getting stale is people not trying new shit, wayen subject may not be the freshest thing out there, but he switches his flow up alot. how do you spit different on 1/2 the songs when you put out a mixtape a week? i think it is cool. anyway, enjoy the weekend.
yea. lol. I’m not big on Aesop Rock either. His voice and delivery kills it for me. But we need some more diversity up here on the Smoking section. As far as the albums and shit being posted.
And people Keep saying all his songs are hot (Wayne). but I’d say i only like an average of 1 out of 20 of the songs he puts out. Cause he dilutes his own music. by putting out too much sub-par, below average, Bullshit. he should stop putting out so much music and save all the rare jewels for an album.
But we need some more diversity up here on the Smoking section. As far as the albums and shit being posted.
=================
You’ll have to expand on that b/c
1.) it’s summer so the attention is focused on the heavy hitters. media, labels, and fans are all looking @ the same things b/c it’s just that time of year.
2.) when we post some new, different or obscure…nobody actually writes a comment/reply.
1.) it’s summer so the attention is focused on the heavy hitters. media, labels, and fans are all looking @ the same things b/c it’s just that time of year.
2.) when we post some new, different or obscure…nobody actually writes a comment/reply.
^ Co-sign on both.
Anyone that says Kanye West is just bland radio music with no substance or purpose but to entertain has absolutely no credibility in my mind. Let’s say this article was even remotely on point theres over a handfull of songs on each of his cd’s (some were even singles) that are deep thought provoking songs.
Ayo, whats goin on with the ‘Ye and weezy comparisons?
First and LASTly- Kanye album is gonna be on a higher level than weezy’s ablum b/c of the simple fact that he raps about political issues. While weezy, yes, is still stuck on his city (thats understandable), losing Mannie Fresh (although he dont wanna admit it, but thats why he is always rapping off of other niggaz beats), and having that much money so early in his career. Kanye hasn’t had a chance to get his ankles wet in the game, sure he had a good 6-7 year with the rock and all that, but this is only his 2 or third album that he is rapping on and not producing most of.
Don’t misinterpret what I’m trying to say, I think that weezy is bringing the game back to what it was in the late ’80s early 90’s yeah its a little basic with him forcing all his lines to rhyme, but isnt that what everyone in hip-hop is co-signing “hip-hop is dead”, so why chastise weezy for repping for the ol’ school cats, cause unfournately thats what he is; a vet.
I will be the frist to agrue that when ‘Ye got his platnium plaques and such he contributed more than half of it to Africia and other charities, what did weezy do with his money (went stuntin wit his daddy, SMH).
Yea, I understand weezy came from a more gutter environment, but the chi isnt a city you wanna sleep on, they invited the pimps and hoes game, and everyone knows thats where the money is at.
So please Drew, with all due respect, this culture that we love is being torn in half by what the label/manufacturer wants to promote, don’t let good music confuse you with good talent.
For some strange reason I am highly anticipating hearing the LOX new ablum, am I lost?
ps…
Is it me or is that new Ja and weezy track a banger?
I dont like neither one much, but together it wasnt that bad.
This has become so monotonous in Rap today, that I forgot it was uncommon to do so. Hence, I’ve lowered my standards to adjust to modern rhymes. More than likely why nothing has blown me away, lyrically, in recent memory. And I think ‘Ye should have placed more meaning into “Stronger”, that track is way too powerful to lolligag around lyrically.
HEYYAA! i DNT KNO WHA YALL TAKKiN BOUHH
lOl. buUH i SEEN MA HUSBAND NAME iN thiS
ND WHO EVER YALL BiSxZ DNT LiKE HYM
YALL GOT iiSUES!
i LOVE WEEZY BBBY!
HEEE RAWWW!
NDDDD DA BST RAPPER ALive BiTCHEZ JUZ HATTTiN!
HoES FALL WAY___BAQKK!
I must say you bring up an interesting battle, but i DO NOT agree at all.
Lil’ Wayne speaks nothing but the truth, light up a blunt and see if you dont agree. & kanYe? smh . like he said YOU CANT TELL HIM NOTHING .
but thats life, everyones entitled to their own opinion.